Ranking the great fast bowlers

[fredfertang]

He rates Knott as the best keeper he has seen

So do I, and by a distance - didn't realise Sir Paddles was such a wise man

 

[kyear2]

Of all the batsmen of his era he rates Boycott "above them all" because he was so difficult to dismiss and admired his singlemindedness (selfishness), though Greg Chappell was the best batsmen he faced as he could dominate an attack. Viv, he said could tear apart an attack, but was arrogant and sometimes irresponsible, which lead to his county sacking at Somerset. He also didn't impress him as a captain and often gave off a "hint of racial annmosity againts us"

He also puts Miandad in the top echelon, but "finds it interesting that he's hardly ever give out leg-before by Pakistani Umpires, Funny That".

 

[kyear2]

So do I, and by a distance - didn't realise Sir Paddles was such a wise man

Never saw him live, but from all reports, no argument there.

 

[smash84]

interesting quotes there kyear

 

[kyear2]

They are more, but they are some what more inflamatory towards Pakistan and W.I especially regarding umpires.

 

[smash84]

i have heard quite a bit about pakistani umpiring back in the day. Doesn't bother me too much

 

[Flem274*]

From reading books by our eighties players, you definitely get the feeling they found some practices with umpiring and the matting pitches suspicious.

And then there's the 'Yeah we totally ball tampered" incident. Any other team I reckon and they would have been nailed to a post regardless of what Pakistan may or may not have been doing.

 

[kyear2]

Have be re evaluating my All Time Teams, and while for the most part most of the team remains unchanged, I find myself asking if we greatly under rate Ray Lindwall?
He played for one of the three or four greatest teams in history and apart from Bradman (and possibly Barnes) he was the primary reason why. He humiliated Weekes in Australia in '52 and most of the great batsmen in his prime. The more I read about him and watch footage I am inclined to think that he is worthy of joining Marshall with the new ball.
Additionally if we are sure that Barnes did bowl medium, then is he also under rated and worthy of a place above Mcgrath?

 

[Jager]

Have be re evaluating my All Time Teams, and while for the most part most of the team remains unchanged, I find myself asking if we greatly under rate Ray Lindwall?
He played for one of the three or four greatest teams in history and apart from Bradman (and possibly Barnes) he was the primary reason why. He humiliated Weekes in Australia in '52 and most of the great batsmen in his prime. The more I read about him and watch footage I am inclined to think that he is worthy of joining Marshall with the new ball.
Additionally if we are sure that Barnes did bowl medium, then is he also under rated and worthy of a place above Mcgrath?

I always thought Lindy is overlooked slightly - particularly since he gets the same sort of praise from people who saw him as someone like Barry Richards, who I personally would have open for me in an ATG side

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/567907.html interesting read on Lindwall

 

[Red]

Have be re evaluating my All Time Teams, and while for the most part most of the team remains unchanged, I find myself asking if we greatly under rate Ray Lindwall?
He played for one of the three or four greatest teams in history and apart from Bradman (and possibly Barnes) he was the primary reason why. He humiliated Weekes in Australia in '52 and most of the great batsmen in his prime. The more I read about him and watch footage I am inclined to think that he is worthy of joining Marshall with the new ball.
Additionally if we are sure that Barnes did bowl medium, then is he also under rated and worthy of a place above Mcgrath?

Lindwall a decent choice in an all time XI. Plenty of bowlers to choose from, but imo he is basically as good as any of them.

Secondary consideration, but he was a very decent bat as well.

 

[kyear2]

The more I read and closely look at statistics though he comes across better than Lillee, who btw on close examination comes back to the pack and virtually indistinguishable from others like Holding or Roberts. Might just be me though.
What pushes Lindwall over the top for me though, and it might be stupid, but to be the spear head of one of the 3 greatest teams ever, proves you are a winner, which puts him in same catergory as Marshall and Warne. Great bowlers find a way to win and they were the match winners for the three greatest teams (along with Gilchrist, Richards and Bradman, who are all in everone's ATG teams). That for me counts for something.
Just me thinking out loud and looking for validation.

 

[Red]

The more I read and closely look at statistics though he comes across better than Lillee, who btw on close examination comes back to the pack and virtually indistinguishable from others like Holding or Roberts. Might just be me though.
What pushes Lindwall over the top for me though, and it might be stupid, but to be the spear head of one of the 3 greatest teams ever, proves you are a winner, which puts him in same catergory as Marshall and Warne. Great bowlers find a way to win and they were the match winners for the three greatest teams (along with Gilchrist, Richards and Bradman, who are all in everone's ATG teams). That for me counts for something.
Just me thinking out loud and looking for validation.

Looking at raw stats doesn't give the full picture.

Lillee was one of those ****s like Warne who just rose to the occasion as required. More pressure=even better than normal.

One or two run variance in a bowler's average means very little.

 

[benchmark00]

Lack of Max Walker discussion is disturbing.

MAX WALKER - TANGLES!!!!!!!! Looks like a babies arm holding an apple..... - YouTube

 

[kyear2]

Looking at raw stats doesn't give the full picture.

Lillee was one of those ****s like Warne who just rose to the occasion as required. More pressure=even better than normal.

One or two run variance in a bowler's average means very little.

Yes agree, and from historical reference, Holding, Roberts and others had similar characteristics. In the late 70's Holding and Lillee were neck and neck statistically and otherwise, while Holding also plyed his trade sucessfully in the sub continent especially in '83. He was also faster, just as accurate and when stirred, just as aggressive and deadley.

 

[kyear2]

Was doing some research on line and from cricket books to see who historians, commentators, writers and former players name in their All Time Teams and including our own team that we did earlier this year and the cricinfo effort the players selected the most for the fast bowler positions were Marshall, Syd Barnes and Lillee with Warne being the unopposed choice for the spinner.
The rest of the team is pretty predictable with the usual suspects. The entire compilation XI
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Syd Barnes
Dennis Lillee

The unanimous selections were Hobbs, Bradman, Sobers and Warne. One vote behind was Tendulkar and Marshall.

 

[Red]

The inclusion of Tendulkar over Hammond in ATG teams irritates me.

 

[kyear2]

As an All Round Cricketer Hammond has few equals (Sobers, Kallis), but don't think that he was an even better batsman than Headley and Lara.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Was doing some research on line and from cricket books to see who historians, commentators, writers and former players name in their All Time Teams and including our own team that we did earlier this year and the cricinfo effort the players selected the most for the fast bowler positions were Marshall, Syd Barnes and Lillee with Warne being the unopposed choice for the spinner.
The rest of the team is pretty predictable with the usual suspects. The entire compilation XI
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Syd Barnes
Dennis Lillee

The unanimous selections were Hobbs, Bradman, Sobers and Warne. One vote behind was Tendulkar and Marshall.

Like this compiled bowling attack a lot Marshall- Lillee- Barnes- Warne. Lot of varities

 

[L Trumper]

Was doing some research on line and from cricket books to see who historians, commentators, writers and former players name in their All Time Teams and including our own team that we did earlier this year and the cricinfo effort the players selected the most for the fast bowler positions were Marshall, Syd Barnes and Lillee with Warne being the unopposed choice for the spinner.
The rest of the team is pretty predictable with the usual suspects. The entire compilation XI
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Syd Barnes
Dennis Lillee

The unanimous selections were Hobbs, Bradman, Sobers and Warne. One vote behind was Tendulkar and Marshall.

Whoa! That's exactly my preferred all time XI. I think cricinfo went with Akram in place of Barnes which I thought was case of variety for the sake of it.

 

[kyear2]

Like this compiled bowling attack a lot Marshall- Lillee- Barnes- Warne. Lot of varities

No arguments either, Barnes (if he was fast medium) supposedly bolwed what Mcgrath did, just better. Just wish there was some video of him.