Is this the Golden Age for fast bowling?

[flibbertyjibber]

Yeah, AWTA.

Obviously it's hard to judge what it'll be like in five years or so, but at the moment, there's pretty much only one bowler who could be considered anywhere near ATG status. There's far, far more than that in most other eras, although this could obviously change soonish.

Very true, at least there are more promising prospects than at any stage of the last 10 years though at present. Time will tell with them but it is more exciting than seeing a runfest game after game against popgun attacks.

 

[wpdavid]

80s hadlee, Imran, Wasim, Marshall, Holding, Lillee, Garner, Kapil

90s Wasim Waqar Ambrose Walsh Donald Pollock McGrath

Might be missing a few in both eras

You'd need to split the 80's - Lillee & Holding and Wasim were at different ends of it, for instance.

Early 1980's - Lillee, Holding, Roberts, Hadlee, Garner, Marshall, Croft, Willis, Botham, Imran and Kapil.

By the mid-1980s, we've lost Lillee, Willis, Botham and Roberts.

By the late 1980's, Ambrose and Walsh have replaced Holding and Garner and Wasim has emerged.

 

[SeamUp]

The South Africa fast bolwer in the 80's was Garth Le Roux. If he had been able to play. Good chance he would have been in that list.

What about 70's list?

Thompson, Lillee, Procter, Van der Bijl, Rice, Willis, Snow, Roberts

Anyone else?

 

[smash84]

You'd need to split the 80's - Lillee & Holding and Wasim were at different ends of it, for instance.

Early 1980's - Lillee, Holding, Roberts, Hadlee, Garner, Marshall, Croft, Willis, Botham, Imran and Kapil.

By the mid-1980s, we've lost Lillee, Willis, Botham and Roberts.

By the late 1980's, Ambrose and Walsh have replaced Holding and Garner and Wasim has emerged.

Yeah. You are right about that

 

[wpdavid]

The South Africa fast bolwer in the 80's was Garth Le Roux. If he had been able to play. Good chance he would have been in that list.

What about 70's list?

Thompson, Lillee, Procter, Van der Bijl, Rice, Willis, Snow, Roberts

Anyone else?

Depends which end of the 1970s we're discussing. By 1977, Imran's bowling had won a test in Australia and Holding had emerged. By 1978/79, Croft and Garner were around too. Plus Botham. However, Snow was long gone by then.

A look at the WSC scorecards might confirm one way or the other, but 1977-79 probably fits the bill.

 

[SeamUp]

Depends which end of the 1970s we're discussing. By 1977, Imran's bowling had won a test in Australia and Holding had emerged. By 1978/79, Croft and Garner were around too. Plus Botham. However, Snow was long gone by then.

A look at the WSC scorecards might confirm one way or the other, but 1977-79 probably fits the bill.

Yeah, I know what you mean, there are plenty of over-lapping examples.

I guess people would like to form different eras and why not the decades even if it isn't as simple as that.

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah, I know what you mean, there are plenty of over-lapping examples.

I guess people would like to form different eras and why not the decades even if it isn't as simple as that.

I think it's simply that a decade is too long. Looking at what's actually happened, there have only been periods of a few years when large numbers of really good quicks have been around at the same time. The late 1990's probably fit the bill as well as any other period - Ambrose, Walsh, Donald Pollock, McGrath, Gillespie, Waqar, Wasim. India had a couple of decent quicks when they toured England in 1996. Not forgetting Gough and, to a lesser extent, guys like Headley & Fraser.


btw I was trying to remember who partnered Procter opening the bowling for SA before isolation.

 

[SeamUp]

I think it's simply that a decade is too long. Looking at what's actually happened, there have only been periods of a few years when large numbers of really good quicks have been around at the same time. The late 1990's probably fit the bill as well as any other period - Ambrose, Walsh, Donald Pollock, McGrath, Gillespie, Waqar, Wasim. India had a couple of decent quicks when they toured England in 1996. Not forgetting Gough and, to a lesser extent, guys like Headley & Fraser.


btw I was trying to remember who partnered Procter opening the bowling for SA before isolation.

Yeah, thats fair enough. Its so difficult to group era's and probably the shorter the better. When peak performance is or was. Like Donald would have opened the bowling in the late 80's with Le Roux for South Africa and so on.

Peter Pollock (Shaun's father) was opening bowling with Procter. But our tour to Australia in 1971/72 would have been so exciting if it wasn't cancelled and isolation started because a young Van der Bijl and Rice were in the squad with Pollock and Procter.

South Africa squad to tour Australia in 1971-72 Ali Bacher (capt), Eddie Barlow*, Hylton Ackerman, Dassie Biggs, Grahame Chevalier, Peter de Vaal, Lee Irvine, Denis Lindsay, Graeme Pollock, Peter Pollock, Mike Proctor, Clive Rice, Barry Richards, Pat Trimborn, Vince van der Bijl.

 

[wpdavid]

Peter Pollock (Shaun's father) was opening bowling with Procter. But our tour to Australia in 1971/72 would have been so exciting if it wasn't cancelled and isolation started because a young Van der Bijl and Rice were in the squad with Pollock and Procter.

South Africa squad to tour Australia in 1971-72 Ali Bacher (capt), Eddie Barlow*, Hylton Ackerman, Dassie Biggs, Grahame Chevalier, Peter de Vaal, Lee Irvine, Denis Lindsay, Graeme Pollock, Peter Pollock, Mike Proctor, Clive Rice, Barry Richards, Pat Trimborn, Vince van der Bijl.

I reckon you'd have won easily enough in 1971/72. The following series would have been quite something though, once Tommo had emerged to partner Lillee.

 

[SeamUp]

I reckon you'd have won easily enough in 1971/72. The following series would have been quite something though, once Tommo had emerged to partner Lillee.

Yeah thats a good call.

Greg Chappell would have been at his height as well and I think we would have had to make changes to our team.

71/72
Barlow, Richards, Bacher (c) , G. Pollock, Irvine, Rice, Lindsay (+), Procter, P.Pollock, Van der Bijl, Chevalier

The bowling: P.Pollock, Procter, Van der Bijl, Rice, Barlow, Chevalier (SLA)

75/76 (Probably 5 or so changes)

Richards, Jimmy Cook, Peter Kirsten, G. Pollock, Ken McEwan or Hylton Ackerman or even Lamb, Irvine (+), Rice (c), Procter, Alan Kourie, Garth Le Roux, Van der Bijl

The attack: Procter, Le Roux, Van der Bijl, Rice, Kourie (SLA)

 

[r3alist]

Apart from the disgraced Pakistani duo, there has only been one bowl of note in the past five years, that of course is Dale steyn, so no this cannot be a golden age if there's only been one really good bowler.

 

[Woodster]

Very early days to make a call on some of these very promising youngsters we currently have taking Test cricket by storm. It is exciting seeing the potential of Cummins, Pattinson, Finn, Yadav, Junaid, Bracewell,etc, but it would not be surprising either for a few of these to fall by the wayside due to many factors.

If all the quicks continue to grow and develop then Test batsmen may be in for a much more difficult time over the next decade or so, it's exciting but very difficult to predict imo.

 

[Furball]

I think the most encouraging development, particularly in Australia, is the improvement in pitches over the last couple of years.

 

[Woodster]

I think the most encouraging development, particularly in Australia, is the improvement in pitches over the last couple of years.

Yes pitches are definitely getting somewhere near an equal battle between bat and ball on a consistent basis and the batsmen that have it so good for years are currently coming up short for many teams.

 

[smash84]

I think the most encouraging development, particularly in Australia, is the improvement in pitches over the last couple of years.

yeah. The bounce in the pitches looking good this year so far.

 

[r3alist]

Very early days to make a call on some of these very promising youngsters we currently have taking Test cricket by storm. It is exciting seeing the potential of Cummins, Pattinson, Finn, Yadav, Junaid, Bracewell,etc, but it would not be surprising either for a few of these to fall by the wayside due to many factors.

If all the quicks continue to grow and develop then Test batsmen may be in for a much more difficult time over the next decade or so, it's exciting but very difficult to predict imo.

agreed, it is exiting because these guys do seem to be better, but look at the flipside, has batting quality reduced?

 

[smash84]

the indian batting order is still there (only a few years older )

England batting is as good as ever

SL still have some big guns of the last decade

Aus have a mixture of old and new

Pak have a new line up....

not sure if batting standards have gone down that much.....

Also samaraweera is still there and he played really well in SA

 

[Woodster]

agreed, it is exiting because these guys do seem to be better, but look at the flipside, has batting quality reduced?

I think the ability of the batsmen in coping with conditions that may favour the bowler havde diminished in some respects. Maybe with the advent of T20 there's a reluctance to occupy the crease and just bat with more caution and play percentage shots, rather than always looking to take it to the bowler and attacking them. I don't think this is the reason right across the board, but I'm sure there is an element of this happening.

Maybe techniques have become a little looser and so seaming and swinging conditions are exposing this. I think the art of playing swing bowling has lost its way a touch of late.

 

[smash84]

I think the ability of the batsmen in coping with conditions that may favour the bowler havde diminished in some respects. Maybe with the advent of T20 there's a reluctance to occupy the crease and just bat with more caution and play percentage shots, rather than always looking to take it to the bowler and attacking them. I don't think this is the reason right across the board, but I'm sure there is an element of this happening.

Maybe techniques have become a little looser and so seaming and swinging conditions are exposing this. I think the art of playing swing bowling has lost its way a touch of late.

good analysis I think

 

[sreeku7]

I think the ability of the batsmen in coping with conditions that may favour the bowler havde diminished in some respects. Maybe with the advent of T20 there's a reluctance to occupy the crease and just bat with more caution and play percentage shots, rather than always looking to take it to the bowler and attacking them. I don't think this is the reason right across the board, but I'm sure there is an element of this happening.

Maybe techniques have become a little looser and so seaming and swinging conditions are exposing this. I think the art of playing swing bowling has lost its way a touch of late.

No foot work even from the so called 'great' batsmen now.See some of the recent dismissals