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sachin or dravid: who in test matches delivered more in crisis?
- Thread starter sumantra
- Start date
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
define crisis.
scoring in the 2nd innings when trailing?
scoring when there's scoreboard pressure?
fighing a lone battle?
scoring in the 2nd innings when trailing?
scoring when there's scoreboard pressure?
fighing a lone battle?
Z-Man
U19 Vice-Captain
Dravid at all costs.
I consider Sachin to be a coward since he never plays at 3 like other top players i.e Ricky,Viv,Don Bradman. The latest series is a prime example of his selfishness.
He did not bother moving up in the order in the absence of Gambhir,Sehwag instead Laxman was made to play at 3 which is why laxman actually failed this series.
Coming to successfulness in crisis, I still consider Dravid better since he has that selflessness which wins him games. Comes as an opener when required, as a keeper when the team wants, anchors the inning in difficult situation. The latest series is a prime example of his superiority over Tendulkar
He plays his heart out and thus wins it for me.
Sachin is looking for records all the time.
I consider Sachin to be a coward since he never plays at 3 like other top players i.e Ricky,Viv,Don Bradman. The latest series is a prime example of his selfishness.
He did not bother moving up in the order in the absence of Gambhir,Sehwag instead Laxman was made to play at 3 which is why laxman actually failed this series.
Coming to successfulness in crisis, I still consider Dravid better since he has that selflessness which wins him games. Comes as an opener when required, as a keeper when the team wants, anchors the inning in difficult situation. The latest series is a prime example of his superiority over Tendulkar
He plays his heart out and thus wins it for me.
Sachin is looking for records all the time.
Last edited:
sachin200
U19 12th Man
This
Vijay.Sharma
School Boy/Girl Captain
I'll wait for you to define "delivery in crisis" and then we can easily measure the two.
I have done this analysis before. I started off looking at this stupidity about Rahul Dravid being India's greatest Test match winner that some Holding Willey report claimed. I presented my case to them. They went zip.
My rebuttal of their claim can be found here (pls note this was done in Feb 2009 so the figures are not up to date) -
Intellections along the course of my journey: Is Rahul Dravid India's greatest ever Test cricketer?
Anyway, that exercise got me thinking about the actual position of some batsmen in the pantheon.
I came up with my definition of a Virtuoso - some of the folks who know me from rsc and icf already have heard enough of this and as in every other walk of life there are ppl who vehemently shout blasphemy and there are some who accept it. And I have analyzed a set of 20 batsmen at the end of the season for the last two years. The first version had 15 batsmen and was done at the end of the 2009-10 season.
With input from people and my own thoughts I improved the virtuosity function and came up with the second version. It also included 20 players instead of 15 and was completed at the end of the previous season - May 2011.
You can find the detailed report of the second version here -
http://tinyurl.com/3hvyrt5
I am already working on the third version which will be even more improved. Please suggest your inputs to improve the analysis for the third version...that will come out at the end of the 2011-12 season i.e. May next year.
By the way, a Virtuoso is a batsman who has performed great in:
in all conditions
against all kinds of attacks
in all innings
in all varieties of pitches
against all teams
in all countries
I have done this analysis before. I started off looking at this stupidity about Rahul Dravid being India's greatest Test match winner that some Holding Willey report claimed. I presented my case to them. They went zip.
My rebuttal of their claim can be found here (pls note this was done in Feb 2009 so the figures are not up to date) -
Intellections along the course of my journey: Is Rahul Dravid India's greatest ever Test cricketer?
Anyway, that exercise got me thinking about the actual position of some batsmen in the pantheon.
I came up with my definition of a Virtuoso - some of the folks who know me from rsc and icf already have heard enough of this and as in every other walk of life there are ppl who vehemently shout blasphemy and there are some who accept it. And I have analyzed a set of 20 batsmen at the end of the season for the last two years. The first version had 15 batsmen and was done at the end of the 2009-10 season.
With input from people and my own thoughts I improved the virtuosity function and came up with the second version. It also included 20 players instead of 15 and was completed at the end of the previous season - May 2011.
You can find the detailed report of the second version here -
http://tinyurl.com/3hvyrt5
I am already working on the third version which will be even more improved. Please suggest your inputs to improve the analysis for the third version...that will come out at the end of the 2011-12 season i.e. May next year.
By the way, a Virtuoso is a batsman who has performed great in:
in all conditions
against all kinds of attacks
in all innings
in all varieties of pitches
against all teams
in all countries
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Omg
Howe_zat
Audio File
Oh me oh my it's got flowcharts and everything
I could get lost in there for days.
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
A simple answer to the thread question will be:
Sachin Tendulkar from 1989 to 2001
Rahul Dravid from 2002 to 2006
Sachin Tendulkar from 2007 till before the England series in 2011
Rahul Dravid was India's best batsman for 5 long years in spite of the team containing a player like Sachin Tendulkar, that itself speaks volumes about how good a player Dravid is.
Sachin Tendulkar from 1989 to 2001
Rahul Dravid from 2002 to 2006
Sachin Tendulkar from 2007 till before the England series in 2011
Rahul Dravid was India's best batsman for 5 long years in spite of the team containing a player like Sachin Tendulkar, that itself speaks volumes about how good a player Dravid is.
Ruckus
International Captain
I'm just stunned that someone could put so much effort into something that, lets be honest, in the grand scheme of things is so damn unimportant it isn't even funny. And not only that, but the exercise itself basically corrodes every aspect of cricket that makes it enjoyable in the first place. And then finally - the icing on the cake really - is the fact that it seems to be perhaps the most elaborate exercise in trying to justify ones own biases of all time.
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
..has been better than both Sachin and Dravid in crisis situations in the last 2 years...
Spark
Global Moderator
Yeah that was what I thought too. But you have Sachin listed in the last four years? Confused, or at cross-purposes.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Nail. Head.
one question : say, the situation is similar, both centuries scored in the 4th innings, in similar match situation...one in 1930 and another in 2010, will the things like no helmets, wet pitches, 120 overs per day, poor quality of bats and many things like that come into the consideration when u r evaluating the two?
Vijay.Sharma
School Boy/Girl Captain
I'll tell you how I approached the analysis (maybe if you read the whole document, it isn't reader unfriendly i can assure you, you'd see the kind of thought that has gone into it) -
The first premise is this: In order to judge a player you need to evaluate his performance under the context in which he performed.
Premise two - context of the performance can be understood both subjectively and objectively. You can devise a way to quantify the subjective aspcts that can be quantified. What cannot be quantified, you try harder (without losing it's meaning) and keep improving. But there are some that just cannot be quantified so you make peace with them realizing fully well that no analysis is ever going to be complete.
So I have tried to quantify some subjective aspects like difficult of pitch, difficulty in different innings, variety of pitches, difficulty of bowlers, difficulty of opposition, etc.
And these can always be improved. My good friend Stephen has already given me a way to improve on the difficulty of opposition criteria for the next version.
Things like body armor I haven't had great illumination as to how to quantify them or include them in my model. Any help will be more than appreciated.
More importantly, to stay on the topic of this thread, would you like to define "delivery in crisis" so we can once for all lay to rest the myth that Sachin dunn do well in crisis and Rahul is supposed to be the God in such situations? Define it, I have all the data till the end of last season (won't take time to add in a few more innings for both batsmen to my excel file). Let's test them.
backfired really then joe!!! that means u take this very seriously, mathematically proven that tendlkar is the best/most valuable and whatever batsman in the history of test cricket...i think his rating went like this 1) sachin, 2) bradman, then lara ponting and dravid...thats it? it's all proven? scientifically calculated, no reason to argue about anything anymore !!!no talks needed, it's all science...HOW CAN ONE EVER MATHMATICALLY JUDGE TENDULKAR AND HAMMOND? (GOODNESS)...so many things have changed in between...
i read that mr. sharma is going to improve upon this in the year 2012, my request to him is, don't waste time on nothing buddy...there is only one life, and it seems that u have already wasted a fair bit of that, do something that has some meaning and stop this paranoia...