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"No i will not have any trouble facing Marshall."

Debris

International 12th Man
Well Ive seen both live and trust me its not just about the stats. I remember a match against a world XI

where Marshall took like 5 wickets and Gavaskar scored a big hundred in the first innings. Dont

remember where the match was played but some of the greatest 80s players were on show that day,

on a wicket tailor made to dent fast bowling. Marshall was the only bowler on either team to get the

better of the batting. And even though he only took 5 or so wickets he still got MOM.

PS To say that Marshall never came up against a strong lineup in any of his 81 tests, is doing a

serious disservice to the cricketers of his time.
You are not the only one to see both live and I think you, like so many, underestimate McGrath's skills because they are not "flashy". I can still remember McGrath bowling to Lara around the wicket and not merely straightening the ball but moving it away from the bat on a pretty flat deck. That is a skill that very few bowlers possess. It baffles me how you can say that one is clearly better than the other.

I would be interested in seeing what you think the strongest batting line-up was that Marshall bowled to, preferably for a series and not just one match. You can probably guess the Indian batting line-up I would post as a response.
 
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MrIncredible

U19 Cricketer
TBH u can post the Indian lineup all u want because AFAIC the Indian lineup has never been the acid

test for great fast bowler. Mcgraths success vs them is highly commendable but Walsh, Donald etc

have also been as successful vs them. Who underestimted Mcgrath? If u actually read what I said, u

would under-stand that I said about a dozen fast bowlers r close (Incl Mcgrath) very close. And I gave

MY reasons y I favored Marshall over ne other seamer (Incl ne other WI seamer).
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
What I am say is exactly the opposite. Teams like India and Pakistan were easier to bowl against in Marshall's era than in McGrath's. India and South Africa had very strong batting sides when McGrath was around. There was no really strong batting line-up around when Marshall played so he was not really put to the ultimate test. Not his fault but I get a bit annoyed when people automatically equate better stats with better bowler.

I don't even necessarily consider McGrath the better bowler but stats are not everything. My opinion is that there is 5 to 10 fast bowlers that you really cannot split and it depends on the situation which one you want really.
Not borne out by statistical evidence.
 

Debris

International 12th Man
Fair enough. And I am posting my reasons why I don't favour Marshall over all other seamers.
 

MrIncredible

U19 Cricketer
Fair enough. And I am posting my reasons why I don't favour Marshall over all other seamers.
Thats fine and u r entitled to ur opinion. Just dont knock people for having their own. And

esp dont put words in my mouth. 'Cause at no point did I underestimate Mcgrath as a

seamer. That would be foolish. Likewise in not seeing that Marshall's place among

the top echelon of great fast bowlers is beyond dispute. PS Mcgrath is up there as well
 

Maximus0723

State Regular
McGrath also had one of the better bouncers.
When it comes to bouncers, what is of more importance is the line and the timing. That's what most of today's bowlers overrate. He also got a sharp rise due to his height.

McGrath's greatest asset was his brain. He was the Newton/Einstein of cricket. The smartest cricketer I know off.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Unfortunately for you champ, the majority of cricket experts around the world, who know more about this game than you ever will, don't even rate McGrath in the top 3 fast bowlers of all time, because he was completely one dimensional and not particularly skillful. The majority of Australians who have seen both, don't even think he was as good as Dennis Lillee.

But, keep staring at those McGrath posters on your wall, if that helps you sleep better at night.
Those fans think Lillee was better than both McGrath and Marshall.

McGrath may have not had all the fancy toys, but he was not one-dimensional. I used to slate McGrath for his bowling, when he was still bowling, but the more I watch videos of his bowling the more I love it. You don't know what you've got till it's gone.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Those fans think Lillee was better than both McGrath and Marshall.

McGrath may have not had all the fancy toys, but he was not one-dimensional. I used to slate McGrath for his bowling, when he was still bowling, but the more I watch videos of his bowling the more I love it. You don't know what you've got till it's gone.
Then no wonder why Ambrose or Marshall rise in estimation... :laugh: If you are finding new respect for McGrath coz of blokes like Johnson and Hilf, imagine them with their Cuffys and Collymores.. :p
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
If you are trying to use this as evidence that McGrath is the better bowler, then it's one of the most nonsensical arguments that I have seen, and completely devoid of logic. Why would anybody place so much emphasis on the final act of a sportsman's career, and completely overlook the entire body of work that preceded it. The last image you see of a champion, is sometimes heroic, and sometimes tragic, but will never overshadow a lifetime of accomplishments.

You do realize that Muhammad Ali got absolutely pummeled in his last fight against Larry Holmes, in one of the greatest beatings ever seen inside of a boxing ring, and that he limped into retirement a shadow of his former self, losing three of his last four fights. Or that Michael Jordan spent his final two seasons with the Washington Wizards hobbling around the basketball court, a poor imitation of his former greatness. And yet neither chapter affected the legacy of either man, and whenever talk turns to the greatest sportsperson in history, they remain two of the prime candidates.

The reality is that different sportsmen retire at different ages: usually when they are mentally and physically exhausted, and no longer feel they have anything left to prove. That time varies for different people. When evaluating sporting greatness, you don't base it on the length of someone's career, but rather the impact they had on the game, for however long they chose to play. Some of the greatest sportspeople in history, retired in the very prime of their career, because they had accomplished everything they set out to do.

Bjorn Borg won 11 Grand Slam titles between 1974 and 1981, and was unarguably the best tennis player in the world. He then stunned the sporting world, by announcing that he was retiring at the ripe old age of 26. Did Borg's premature retirement diminish his legacy? Not in the slightest. Even now, people still marvel at the sheer genius of his play, and his supreme calmness under pressure. He is still universally acknowledged as one of the top 5 male tennis players of all time.

Jim Brown, the man many people regard as the greatest player in the history of the NFL, retired at the very peak of his powers, at the age of 29. He only played 9 seasons, but had such an incredible impact on the game, that he stands shoulder to shoulder with Jerry Rice, as the game's greatest ever player.

Michael Jordan retired three times during his career; the first when he was only 30. So the man who many regard as the greatest sportsman in history, and one of the most competitive men in the world, essentially missed 5 years in the prime of his career, because he wasn't 'motivated' enough to play. Does any of this affect his legacy. Absolutely not. There are very few people in the sports world, who would question Jordan's standing as the undisputed king of basketball.

Nearly every professional sportsman will lose motivation at some stage in his career, otherwise nobody would ever retire. At some point, you start to have different priorities in life, and a desire to spend more time with your family, or pursue other interests.

When Brian Lara and Shane Warne retired from international cricket in 2007, they both had at least two good years left in them. Do you want to penalize them because they weren't 'motivated' enough to continue their career, or like any logical human being, will you simply acknowledge that both of these champions had achieved everything they set out to do, and now wanted to do something else with their life. The fact that Tendulkar and Muralitharan played longer, and ended up breaking most of their records, doesn't diminish the legacy of Lara and Warne in the slightest. Nor does it automatically make Tendulkar and Muralitharan greater cricketers. There are plenty of good judges who still rate Lara ahead of Tendulkar, and Warne ahead of Murali.


When Malcolm Marshall departed international cricket at the age of 34, he retired as one of the most decorated cricketers the game had ever seen. Most players would give an arm and a leg, to achieve half of what he did. He may have slipped a little in the One Day game as he got older, but in Test cricket, he was still phenomenal. In the final two Test series of his career in 1991, he took 21 wickets against Australia at 20.8, and 20 wickets in England at 22.1. In these two epic battles, he illustrated that he was still the king in Test cricket. Marshall ensured that the West Indies continued their ten year unbeaten run in the long form of the game, and it seems safe to say that when he retired, there was simply nothing left for him to achieve.

He obviously had a passion for coaching, because as soon as he stopped playing, he took up a series of coaching positions around the world. He went to South Africa to play and coach at Natal, and become a mentor for Shaun Pollock. He then became coach of Hampshire and the West Indies. Based on everything you read about the man, he lead a very fulfilled life, right up until the time of his passing in 1999. Unlike a lot of professional sportsmen who seem to drift aimlessly after retirement, Marshall obviously found another career that he was equally passionate about.

I don't know, maybe McGrath was the more driven cricketer in the final three months of their respective One Day careers, and you can make of that what you will. He certainly wasn't any more successful in Test Cricket in the twilight of their careers, because Marshall was as brilliant as ever. All I do know, is that if I had to choose one of them for a 10 year period, when they were both at the absolute top of their game, I would take Malcolm Marshall in a heartbeat.
I was more talking about the Motivation factor you put in you previous post ,which was a bit unfair talking about a great like Marshall and only making excuses and a straw man argument.

I rate Marshall very highly in fact ,perhaps higher than Mcgrath.

Made that post to illustrate a seperate point ,which you didn't grasp here.

And btw, Bjorn Borg's legacy is definetely affected by the fact that he retired early.
It may not when you are comparing him to the second rung and below like Hewitt and Roddick etc.. but when you are comparing him with greats like Federer it definetely is.
The margin of differenciation there is very less ,so every single aspect of their careers has to scrutinised and rightly so.

Jim Brown is one of the greatest players ever ,probably but not i would say regarded amongst the 3 or even 5 greatest ever regularly because again of the duration he played for.
When comparing to the best this all matters,if you like it or not.

It's not like the comparison here is being made with Jason Gillespie and Marshall ,but one of the greatest ever against one of the greatest ever so to take everything into account specially longevity is fair enough.
Their is a lot of difference between one of the greats and the the greatest ever mate.

Now coming to the bolded Paragraph.
That was my point altogether.

Marshall was not as bad as some of his fans or some Sachin Criticizers were saying in this thread early on.And now you have illustrated it yourself.:laugh:

That paragraph works in total opposite to the one you posted earlier. He did not lack drive ,he just had a bad series and India and Sachin did decently against him.
No need to make excuses for it . Everyone is human and has ups and downs.
And you can't really have the cake and eat it too.

Marshall during his last playing days was still a very good bowler and certainly was no Muhammad Ali or Michael Jordan coming out of retirement way past their best for Money ,though both still did decently.
 
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Debris

International 12th Man
Thats fine and u r entitled to ur opinion. Just dont knock people for having their own. And

esp dont put words in my mouth. 'Cause at no point did I underestimate Mcgrath as a

seamer. That would be foolish. Likewise in not seeing that Marshall's place among

the top echelon of great fast bowlers is beyond dispute. PS Mcgrath is up there as well
The only words I have put in your mouth is that you believe that Marshall is better than McGrath. If this was not what you said, I apologize. I have never argued that Marshall was not a great bowler or even that McGrath was better. Other than that, well, it was you who took a shot at my intelligence. I have put forth my opinions on why I think it is difficult to separate them and why I disagree with some of your arguments. This is a discussion forum after all so surely you must have expected at least some disagreement.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
What I am say is exactly the opposite. Teams like India and Pakistan were easier to bowl against in Marshall's era than in McGrath's. India and South Africa had very strong batting sides when McGrath was around.
The Pakistan batting in the time that Marshall played was better than in McGrath's time At least the side that Marshall faced had a spine and could fight it out........unlike the spineless displays of the late 90s and 00s

You never miss a chance to plug that thread, do you? :laugh:
lol...........true

Haha. But I never plug it in at the wrong place, do I :D
true this as well.........btw it was an insightful thread....so when are you going to do another analysis like that?????
 

slog sweep

Cricket Spectator
I would go as far as to say that anyone who called McGrath one-dimensional knows nothing about fast bowling. Two seconds thought would make you realise a one-dimensional bowler could not have the success that McGrath had.
Anyone who calls Mcgrath one-dimensional doesn't know much about cricket.

Could bowl short of length, pitch it up, move it in, move it away, had a highly under-rated bouncer, had a pretty good yorker as well, varied the pace as required. He knew what exactly he should bowl to which batsman.

Can't really think of any bowler who had that much success vs the best batsmen of their era as Mcgrath did

First of all, I am fairly certain that I have played and coached cricket at a lot higher level
than either of you have, and I know a lot more about this sport than you ever will. But, that's a discussion for another time and place.

There have been plenty of sporting champions who are essentially one-dimensional. Anybody who thinks you can't become great with an essentially limited set of skills, is seriously clueless. In sport, you have your geniuses who are freakishly gifted, and then you have your self-made champions who take whatever natural talent they were born with, work hard and forge a succesful career. Wasim Akram falls into the first category, and Glenn McGrath falls into the second category. McGrath was undoubtedly a self-made champion, but he was also a primarily one-dimensional bowler with a basic set of tools.

When somebody describes a sportsman as 'one dimensional' it essentially means that their mode of attack, or game plan doesn't vary that much from opponent to opponent, or from situation to situation. As I said earlier, you can still be a champion, and be one-dimensional. Mike Tyson, at the peak of his powers, was one of the greatest heavyweights in history, but he was essentially a one-dimensional fighter. It didn't matter who the opponent was, he would fight in exactly the same way. Muhammad Ali, on the other hand, was a multi-dimensional fighter. He changed his game plan based on the strengths and weaknesses of his opponent. Sometimes he would dance, other times he would stand toe to toe and trade blows, and as he famously did against George Foreman, he went into the 'rope a dope' to wear Foreman down. That is the essence of a multi-dimensional champion: a guy who can change his strategy and his tactics at any given moment, to expose a weakness in his opponent, and give himself the best chance of success.

Karl Malone was one-dimensional basketballer who took a basic set of skills, refined them and became one of the greatest power forwards in history. He relied on the pick and roll with John Stockton, and his outside jumper. He had limitations, but he was still a champion. Michael Jordan, on the other hand, was a basketball genius who could beat you in any number of ways. He read what the defense gave him, and then he formed an appropriate strategy on any given night. One of the reasons why he was simply unstoppable in the clutch, was because he could beat you in so many ways, and opposition coaches didn't know how to defend him. He had so many weapons
in his armory, that he was simply impossible to beat.

Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis are two other fast bowling champions, with contrasting methods. Waqar Younis was a one-dimensional fast bowler, in that there was no Plan B. He bowled fast and full, and relied primarily on late reverse swing. He wasn't the type of bowler who had the patience to bowl six dot balls in a row, and build pressure. He was an offensive bowler who thought of taking wickets first, and containing runs second. He started his career that way, and he finished his career that way. That is how he was one dimensional: because there was no subtlety to his bowling, and because he didn't change his game plan at any stage in his career.

Wasim Akram, on the other hand, was a true fast bowling master. He had all the tricks of the trade, and made the subtle adjustments against different opponents, in different conditions. He could attack you in any number of ways. There have always been suspicions that Steve Waugh didn't play the short ball very well, so Akram famously unleashed a bounce barrage in Rawalpindi in 1994. There were other times when conditions were overcast, where he would simply rely on swing. On other occasions if nothing much was happening, he would change his direction of attack, and
come around the wicket in an attempt to give the batsman something else to think about. He was always thinking, and always planning something. Wasim Akram was the quintessential fast bowling master who used his brilliant cricket brain, and his extraordinary natural gifts to beat you in a variety of ways, while Waqar Younis was the ultimate one-trick bowler. One guy was unbelievably multi-dimensional, while the other guy was very one-dimensional. Having said that, it didn't stop either of them from becoming champions.

The comparison between Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath also underlines that different bowlers have different modes of opperation. Warne, like Wasim Akram, was a cricketing genius if ever there has been one. He was the ultimate multi-dimensional bowler. Initially Warne relied on his big spinning leg break, and his relentless accuracy. After finger and shoulder surgery, his bowling underwent a major transformation. He didn't turn the ball as much, and relied much more on subtle variation. Warne was multi-dimensional in the sense that his game plan and tactics changed regularly, depending on the opponent and the prevailing conditions. English and South African batsmen primarily didn't leave their crease, and had unconvincing footwork, so Warne built his entire game plan around this technical deficiency. He enticed them with more flighted deliveries to get them out of their comfort zone, or alternatively he simply decided to starve them of run scoring opportunities, push them back into their crease and eventually trap them with his zooter or flipper.

Against Pakistani batsmen, who had better footwork, but were prone to reckless shot selection, he preyed on their incredible ability to self destruct. He would leave mid-wicket open, and tempt them to hit against the spin; knowing full well that more often than not they would take the bait. Against nearly every opponent, and in every situation, you could see Warne's mind ticking over, constantly planning different strategies.On other occasions, Warne would go around the wicket and bowl into the rough, to change his method of operation and attack the blind-spot. That was the essence of Warne's greatness: that he had a seeminly limitless ammount of ability, and could change plans mid-stream, without missing a beat. Whether he was relying on spin, variety, or just his brilliant cricket brain, Shane Warne was the ultimate multi-dimensional bowler.

Glenn McGrath, on the other hand, by his own admission, had one of the simplest game plans in all of cricket. He built his success around scoreboard pressure, and phenomenal accuracy. McGrath was not a fast bowling genius: he was not Wasim Akram, he was not Malcolm Marshall, and he was not Dennis Lillee. He didn't have all of the tricks of the trade, and as many weapons as other fast bowlers. He took a very fundamental set of skills: polished them, refined them, and became very successful. As I have explained, you can be a bona fide sporting champion, and still be one-dimensional and predictable. Very rarely, did McGrath's game plan change, regardless of the circumstances, the opponents, or the conditions. He lived and died, on the tried and true principles of line and length. He owned the corridor of uncertainty, remained patient and waited for a mistake. McGrath didn't come at you; you had to come at him.

That was the essence of his greatness; a seemingly limitless supply of discipline and patience. He had subtle variations, inside of a very basic framework. Now, he took this very simple game plan to every country in the world, rarely deviated from it, and became one of the greatest fast bowlers the game has seen. Nobody questions his greatness, but very few smart cricketing people consider him to be 'The Greatest'. The reality is that the vast majority of the cricket world rates the likes of Malcolm Marshall, Dennis Lillee, Wasim Akram and a few others slightly ahead of him, because they were more brilliant, more attacking, and more skillful.

Finally, as for you two gentlemen, either you don't understand what 'one-dimensional' means, or you simply don't have the depth of knowledge and understanding, that you thought you did. Before you start accusing others of not knowing anything about cricket, you probably need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
 
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Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
That's a nice post and it outlines the differences in the bowlers well, but I think you're kidding yourself if you think McGrath isn't thought of as Marshall, Lillee and Wasim are. Lillee himself called McGrath the greatest.

There are variations and there are variations. One can argue that if Marshall couldn't get you with seam he could get you with swing. But allow me to play the devil's advocate: is that really necessary? How about just pitching the ball a little higher or slowing the speed down? If one bowler proved you can be as effective without having to making your variations drastically different it was McGrath. In the end all you need is a slight nick or miss.
 
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smash84

The Tiger King
First of all, I am fairly certain that I have played and coached cricket at a lot higher level
than either of you have, and I know a lot more about this sport than you ever will. But, that's a discussion for another time and place.

There have been plenty of sporting champions who are essentially one-dimensional. Anybody who thinks you can't become great with an essentially limited set of skills, is seriously clueless. In sport, you have your geniuses who are freakishly gifted, and then you have your self-made champions who take whatever natural talent they were born with, work hard and forge a succesful career. Wasim Akram falls into the first category, and Glenn McGrath falls into the second category. McGrath was undoubtedly a self-made champion, but he was also a primarily one-dimensional bowler with a basic set of tools.

When somebody describes a sportsman as 'one dimensional' it essentially means that their mode of attack, or game plan doesn't vary that much from opponent to opponent, or from situation to situation. As I said earlier, you can still be a champion, and be one-dimensional. Mike Tyson, at the peak of his powers, was one of the greatest heavyweights in history, but he was essentially a one-dimensional fighter. It didn't matter who the opponent was, he would fight in exactly the same way. Muhammad Ali, on the other hand, was a multi-dimensional fighter. He changed his game plan based on the strengths and weaknesses of his opponent. Sometimes he would dance, other times he would stand toe to toe and trade blows, and as he famously did against George Foreman, he went into the 'rope a dope' to wear Foreman down. That is the essence of a multi-dimensional champion: a guy who can change his strategy and his tactics at any given moment, to expose a weakness in his opponent, and give himself the best chance of success.

Karl Malone was one-dimensional basketballer who took a basic set of skills, refined them and became one of the greatest power forwards in history. He relied on the pick and roll with John Stockton, and his outside jumper. He had limitations, but he was still a champion. Michael Jordan, on the other hand, was a basketball genius who could beat you in any number of ways. He read what the defense gave him, and then he formed an appropriate strategy on any given night. One of the reasons why he was simply unstoppable in the clutch, was because he could beat you in so many ways, and opposition coaches didn't know how to defend him. He had so many weapons
in his armory, that he was simply impossible to beat.

Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis are two other fast bowling champions, with contrasting methods. Waqar Younis was a one-dimensional fast bowler, in that there was no Plan B. He bowled fast and full, and relied primarily on late reverse swing. He wasn't the type of bowler who had the patience to bowl six dot balls in a row, and build pressure. He was an offensive bowler who thought of taking wickets first, and containing runs second. He started his career that way, and he finished his career that way. That is how he was one dimensional: because there was no subtlety to his bowling, and because he didn't change his game plan at any stage in his career.

Wasim Akram, on the other hand, was a true fast bowling master. He had all the tricks of the trade, and made the subtle adjustments against different opponents, in different conditions. He could attack you in any number of ways. There have always been suspicions that Steve Waugh didn't play the short ball very well, so Akram famously unleashed a bounce barrage in Rawalpindi in 1994. There were other times when conditions were overcast, where he would simply rely on swing. On other occasions if nothing much was happening, he would change his direction of attack, and
come around the wicket in an attempt to give the batsman something else to think about. He was always thinking, and always planning something. Wasim Akram was the quintessential fast bowling master who used his brilliant cricket brain, and his extraordinary natural gifts to beat you in a variety of ways, while Waqar Younis was the ultimate one-trick bowler. One guy was unbelievably multi-dimensional, while the other guy was very one-dimensional. Having said that, it didn't stop either of them from becoming champions.

The comparison between Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath also underlines that different bowlers have different modes of opperation. Warne, like Wasim Akram, was a cricketing genius if ever there has been one. He was the ultimate multi-dimensional bowler. Initially Warne relied on his big spinning leg break, and his relentless accuracy. After finger and shoulder surgery, his bowling underwent a major transformation. He didn't turn the ball as much, and relied much more on subtle variation. Warne was multi-dimensional in the sense that his game plan and tactics changed regularly, depending on the opponent and the prevailing conditions. English and South African batsmen primarily didn't leave their crease, and had unconvincing footwork, so Warne built his entire game plan around this technical deficiency. He enticed them with more flighted deliveries to get them out of their comfort zone, or alternatively he simply decided to starve them of run scoring opportunities, push them back into their crease and eventually trap them with his zooter or flipper.

Against Pakistani batsmen, who had better footwork, but were prone to reckless shot selection, he preyed on their incredible ability to self destruct. He would leave mid-wicket open, and tempt them to hit against the spin; knowing full well that more often than not they would take the bait. Against nearly every opponent, and in every situation, you could see Warne's mind ticking over, constantly planning different strategies.On other occasions, Warne would go around the wicket and bowl into the rough, to change his method of operation and attack the blind-spot. That was the essence of Warne's greatness: that he had a seeminly limitless ammount of ability, and could change plans mid-stream, without missing a beat. Whether he was relying on spin, variety, or just his brilliant cricket brain, Shane Warne was the ultimate multi-dimensional bowler.

Glenn McGrath, on the other hand, by his own admission, had one of the simplest game plans in all of cricket. He built his success around scoreboard pressure, and phenomenal accuracy. McGrath was not a fast bowling genius: he was not Wasim Akram, he was not Malcolm Marshall, and he was not Dennis Lillee. He didn't have all of the tricks of the trade, and as many weapons as other fast bowlers. He took a very fundamental set of skills: polished them, refined them, and became very successful. As I have explained, you can be a bona fide sporting champion, and still be one-dimensional and predictable. Very rarely, did McGrath's game plan change, regardless of the circumstances, the opponents, or the conditions. He lived and died, on the tried and true principles of line and length. He owned the corridor of uncertainty, remained patient and waited for a mistake. McGrath didn't come at you; you had to come at him.

That was the essence of his greatness; a seemingly limitless supply of discipline and patience. He had subtle variations, inside of a very basic framework. Now, he took this very simple game plan to every country in the world, rarely deviated from it, and became one of the greatest fast bowlers the game has seen. Nobody questions his greatness, but very few smart cricketing people consider him to be 'The Greatest'. The reality is that the vast majority of the cricket world rates the likes of Malcolm Marshall, Dennis Lillee, Wasim Akram and a few others slightly ahead of him, because they were more brilliant, more attacking, and more skillful.

Finally, as for you two gentlemen, either you don't understand what 'one-dimensional' means, or you simply don't have the depth of knowledge and understanding, that you thought you did. Before you start accusing others of not knowing anything about cricket, you probably need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
wow..........slog sweep you write extremely well........you are beginning to change my perception of the 2Ws once again.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That was the essence of his greatness; a seemingly limitless supply of discipline and patience. He had subtle variations, inside of a very basic framework. Now, he took this very simple game plan to every country in the world, rarely deviated from it, and became one of the greatest fast bowlers the game has seen. Nobody questions his greatness, but very few smart cricketing people consider him to be 'The Greatest'. The reality is that the vast majority of the cricket world rates the likes of Malcolm Marshall, Dennis Lillee, Wasim Akram and a few others slightly ahead of him, because they were more brilliant, more attacking, and more skillful.
McGrath was a freak. He was not the quickest. Not the most naturally gifted. Yet he took wickets cheaply and often and on pitches that largely were not of assistance.

McGrath was a freak. More than anyone else in history, McGrath could control the ball. He could land it within a 10cm x 10cm spot all day long and yet make each ball subtly different.

The problem with rating McGrath is that he didn't have the large inswinging 150kph yorkers. He didn't have the huge hooping outswing that some other fast bowlers are known for. Yet what he did have was the ability to regularly exploit the technical weaknesses of even the best batsmen in the world. He was the smartest and most subtle fast bowler the world has ever seen.

His greatness was to me highlighted in two separate events.

In the 2005 Ashes series for some reason a batsman pulled out of a stroke while McGrath was in his runup. McGrath bowled the ball anyway and it tore out the off stump by pitching and then hitting the very top of the off stump. In essence he used a dead ball to build pressure on the batsman while simultaneously demonstrating his unparalleled control of the cricket ball.

The second event was in a charity T20 match that he took part in. He was bowling to Warner, who at the time was arguably the best T20 batsman in the world. McGrath was miked and was commentating on his own bowling. The first three balls he was talking about how he was going to bring the ball back into the batsman to continue building pressure. Then the forth ball he said he was going to take it away from the batsman, catch the edge and have him caught behind. He did so and the batsman was caught at first slip. No other bowler could have executed a plan so perfectly. No other fast bowler dealt so well in subtleties. Very few fast bowlers were as effective at taking wickets.

In all of this discussion I think we tend to lose just how good these players were. All of McGrath, Ambrose, Marshall, Lillee, Holding, Garner, Trueman etc... were really really good at one thing - taking wickets. Any side in the world today would gladly take any three of these bowlers over their current bowling attack without hesitation (well with the possible exception of South Africa, because of Dale Steyn who may soon be revered as one of these top shelf quicks).

We are lucky to have witnessed those of these that we have seen and being an Australian I count myself very lucky to have witnessed the majority of McGrath's career.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
People talk about bowlers hitting a 10cm x 10cm patch again and again but of course they exaggerate, no one can actually do that...

Except McGrath. I remember one ODI in England in 05 where they showed the pitch map of his first 5-6 over spell and no joke it was one small red blob on a good length just outside off. It was almost surreal.
 

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