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England can beat India "every day of week": Gough

Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
silentstriker said:
I'd still take both the Indian and SA batting over English. And I'd take the SA fast bowling over the England bowling. England definitely have the better overall attack compared to India, but India would win at home, I have no doubt. And Zaheer can probably extract enough from the pitch to do at least as well as any England pace bowler attack (as has been said, he's pretty much genetically engineered to play in England) to make India at least competitive in England.


I personally don't see it. Taking nothing away from the poms though, they are very very good and it would not be a shock to see them beat anybody.
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I'd take South Africa's opening bowlers for England; if you were offering me their complete attack I'd stick with the one we've got. Like I said, a team is only as strong as their weakest link and trading Tsotsobe and Harris for Broad and Swann weakens the side so ridiculously that trading Anderson and Tremlett for Steyn and Morkel simply isn't worth it.

Likewise with the batting: Smith, Amla, Kallis and de Villiers walk into England's side but Petersen, Prince, Boucher and the complete lack of batting ability of any of the bowlers would weaken it at the same time.
 
Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
silentstriker said:
I'd still take both the Indian and SA batting over English. And I'd take the SA fast bowling over the England bowling. England definitely have the better overall attack compared to India, but India would win at home, I have no doubt. And Zaheer can probably extract enough from the pitch to do at least as well as any England pace bowler attack (as has been said, he's pretty much genetically engineered to play in England) to make India at least competitive in England.


I personally don't see it. Taking nothing away from the poms though, they are very very good and it would not be a shock to see them beat anybody.
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India undoubtedly have a better batting lineup than England but that wasn't my point. My point was that they've minimised their weaknesses to a point where they basically don't exist; not that they have the best batting lineup or the best bowling attack.

Incidentally I'd take their attack over South Africa's based on the same logic. Steyn's comfortably the best bowler from either side but Anderson's better than Morkel and Harris/Lopsy wouldn't even make India's team. I'm not really a big fan of South Africa's attack; they're very reliant on an admittedly reliable and awesome bowler but it makes them prone to inconsistency. If Steyn has a quiet series, they are boned. England are very well placed to cover someone having a quiet series or a rough patch because all their players are quality. South Africa are very highly rated because they have 'name' players but their recent results have been quite poor and I don't think they'll ever be as good as people expect of them until they find at good players in a few problem positions.
 
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Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
silentstriker said:
Put me at six, and I'd still take the Indian batting lineup over the English.


And lol@balldoingabit. This is not Boycott we're talking about - most batting lineups fold when there's proper swing. I'd back Sehwag and Gambhir to do as well as Cook and Strauss in England - in fact, I'd be willing to make a bet on it when the series rolls around. There are plenty of flat pitches in England too.
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I'm not talking about heavily overcast conditions that allow Anderson to hoop the ball round corners, I'm talking about the sort of conditions we saw against Pakistan, where the ball does a bit off the seam and swings a little. I'll defend Sehwag to the death when people write him off as a FTB, but I don't think even his most ardent defender could argue that Sehwag hasn't yet proven himself in conditions that offer a bit to the bowler - look at his record in England, New Zealand and South Africa. Gambhir has barely played outside the subcontinent and has never experienced English conditions. If we get a summer of flatties, I expect India's batting lineup to pose us problems, if we get massively bowler friendly conditions then Zaheer comes into play majorly. If we get something inbetween then we've got a fascinating series to look forward to, and one that at this moment in time, I'd make England slight favourites for, as their lack of any weaknesses cancel out India's strengths.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
GingerFurball said:
I'd take South Africa's opening bowlers for England; if you were offering me their complete attack I'd stick with the one we've got.
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Well, I'd disagree with that. Harris is not that bad, and the third seamer is worse but Steyn...WAFG.


GingerFurball said:
Likewise with the batting: Smith, Amla, Kallis and de Villiers walk into England's side but Petersen, Prince, Boucher and the complete lack of batting ability of any of the bowlers would weaken it at the same time.
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But the difference would still make up for it, and I'd take the SA batting lineup as well.
 
MW1304

MW1304

Cricketer Of The Year
GingerFurball said:
I'd take South Africa's opening bowlers for England; if you were offering me their complete attack I'd stick with the one we've got. Like I said, a team is only as strong as their weakest link and trading Tsotsobe and Harris for Broad and Swann weakens the side so ridiculously that trading Anderson and Tremlett for Steyn and Morkel simply isn't worth it.

Likewise with the batting: Smith, Amla, Kallis and de Villiers walk into England's side but Petersen, Prince, Boucher and the complete lack of batting ability of any of the bowlers would weaken it at the same time.
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Fail to see how de Villiers walks into the England side tbh. He's behind Trott and Pietersen for me, not too much difference between him and Bell.

But, yeah, agree with all other points here.
 
Blaze 18

Blaze 18

Banned
England last beat India in a test series in 1996; the last time they beat India in India was in 1984. Exaggeration much, Gough ?
 
Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
MW1304 said:
Fail to see how de Villiers walks into the England side tbh. He's behind Trott and Pietersen for me, not too much difference between him and Bell.

But, yeah, agree with all other points here.
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de Villiers is ahead of all of England's batsmen, he has been utterly phenominal for 3 years now.
 
Shri

Shri

Mr. Glass
Swann will be a weak link for Eng when he plays against India or Sri Lanka. Even this Aus side which is having a horrid batting time has not given him too many wickets.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
If England are 'slight' favorites in England, India must be substantial favorites in India. I am not sure if Gough was only talking about England, but assuming he was, I still don't see any justification for 'every day of the week' comment.
 
Jarquis

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
gvenkat said:
The last time i checked england has not won a series in India for almost 25 years.
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Would be interesting in hearing :
1) How many of those England sides were as good as the current one?
2) When was the last time the England and India sides were as close as they are now?
3)How that's relevant to anything at all?
 
fredfertang

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The problem with Darren Gough is that part of his job description seems to be to make Ronnie Irani seem like the voice of good sense and reason on all matters - this, of course, is all but impossible

If it weren't for Hawksbee and Jacobs and Jack Bannister I'd give up with talkSPORT
 
Jarquis

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Shri said:
Swann will be a weak link for Eng when he plays against India or Sri Lanka. Even this Aus side which is having a horrid batting time has not given him too many wickets.
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Completely outbowled Harbhajan in his debut series and ripped Sri Lanka to pieces in ODIs.
He won't be a weak link at all. The Australian's haven't gifted him heaps of wickets but he's playing on the least spin friendly decks in the world and he's not actually been needed all that much and when he was he took a 5fer.
 
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