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Thread: ESPNcricinfo World XI

  1. #826
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    Who he gets out to has no relation to how many runs he makes. He could get out to Clarke for 0, and to McGrath/Warne for 150 odd. The latter is incidentally what happened at Chennai, IIRC.
    I watched that game.. And it was pretty obvious that scoring runs was an issue there.. Survival, not so much but it was very hard to get people away and this guy was whacking McWarne... It was surreal!!! EVERY batsman in that game was playing at a level below Sehwag. You just had to be there to understand it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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  2. #827
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    i watched that game.. And it was pretty obvious that scoring runs was an issue there.. Survival, not so much but it was very hard to get people away and this guy was whacking mcwarne... It was surreal!!! Every batsman in that game was playing at a level below sehwag. You just had to be there to understand it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Haha, no worries, I was sure KP didn't feature in the last Ashes as well. Didn't McGrath whack him in the ribs?

    I think the last paragraph is a little simplistic tbh, and I think both batsmen are world class.

    KP always held the advantage over Sehwag in New Zealand because they're so similar to conditions in England, maybe a little slower at grounds like Seddon Park. The Napier test pitch is FTB land and I'm not sure how that compares to any flat English pitches.

    KP did face vastly different conditions to Sehwag down here as well. Kyle Mills, James Anderson and Tim Southee dominated batsmen at various stages of the series, and bar Napier the pitches were more sporting. When India turned up it was almost as if the groundsmen were trying to make us lose, rolling out three extremely flat wickets (props to Zaheer for gunning it on those with the ball). back in 2002 the conditions were almost the exact opposite and no batsmen bar Mark Richardson, Sachin and Dravid really had any success (Astle and Fleming chipped in with decent knocks considering the conditions). That series not only had pure greentops but NZ also had several bowlers at their peaks (Bond, Tuffey, Oram). That series will be used by many as a black mark on Sehwag's record, because he couldn't even put together a 20 or 30 which in the context of the series would have been a good contribution. If KP has played in the same series I doubt his NZ record would be as good as it is, even though he did succeed in conditions that were still bowler friendly (unless he inflated his average at Napier. I can't remember now).

    On the flip side, Sehwag is simply awesome in the subcontinent. He knows how to bat over there, where in contrast Pietersen is yet to adjust in all the subcontinent countries, though England can be confident he will post some numbers there at some point considering he's succeeded in India. That discounts nothing from Sehwag though. It is just as important to succeed in spin friendly conditions as it is in bounce/movement friendly conditions.

    Both were good in Australia, and without checking statsguru I think Sehwag has a few runs in England. Both are **** in South Africa barring that century in SA.

    So KP has the better all round record, but not by much. Bounce isn't an issue for Sehwag, I think it's seam movement. He has one century in South Africa, but little else. However, Sehwag is still a world class player because he is Godlike against spin bowling, even in spin friendly conditions. If he batted at number five outside the subcontinent against the older ball and spinners, he'd have some good fun I reckon.
    Top post,I agree with pretty much everything.

    Just for reference,Sehwag's away stats from the top off my head:

    Aus 59.5
    Eng 39.5
    WI 51
    NZ 20
    Pak 91.something
    SL 69.something
    SA 26.something

    with 2 tons in Aus,3 in SL,2 in Pak and 1 each in WI and SA.

    ftr,I think both Sehwag and KP are class,not quite ATGs yet but on the right path.

  4. #829
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    tried to create a team out of the top most player from each test playing nation, with one additional player from england to complete the XI (since england is the oldest cricketing nation!). here is what I got.

    hobbs (eng)
    hutton (eng 2)
    bradman (aus)
    tendulkar (ind)
    sobers (WI)
    flower - wk (zim)
    imran - cap (pak)
    hadlee (nz)
    shakib (bang)
    murali (SL)
    donald (SA)
    Why is Imran the captain of this side???? Only Bradman is assured of a place in this side right???


  5. #830
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    Why is Imran the captain of this side???? Only Bradman is assured of a place in this side right???
    fair enough.

    here is the changed side.

    TEST XI

    hobbs (eng)
    hutton (eng 2)
    bradman - cap (aus)
    tendulkar (ind)
    a.flower - wk (zim)
    sobers (WI)
    imran (pak)
    shakib (bang)
    hadlee (nz)
    murali (SL)
    donald (SA)

    And a ODI XI would be...

    Tendulkar (ind)
    Jayasuriya (SL)
    Richards (WI)
    Kallis (SA)
    Flower - WK (zim)
    Fairbrother (eng 1)
    Shakib (bang)
    Flintoff - (eng 2)
    Hadlee - (nz)
    Akram - (pak)
    Mcgrath (aus)

    Note: Flintoff replaced by RTD later
    Last edited by bagapath; 30-10-2010 at 10:50 PM.

  6. #831
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    And a ODI XI would be...

    Tendulkar (ind)
    Jayasuriya (SL)
    Richards (WI)
    Kallis (SA)
    Flower - WK (zim)
    Fairbrother (eng 1)
    Shakib (bang)
    Flintoff - (eng 2)
    Hadlee - (nz)
    Akram - (pak)
    Mcgrath (aus)
    I know you are trying to fit in all teams, but I just want to say that Greenidge should be shoe-in as an opener (with Tendulkar) in an all time ODI XI. Consider this - Only Viv and Greenidge have a higher frequency of winning MoM awards than Tendulkar.

  7. #832
    School Boy/Girl Cricketer sifter132's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    I watched that game.. And it was pretty obvious that scoring runs was an issue there.. Survival, not so much but it was very hard to get people away and this guy was whacking McWarne... It was surreal!!! EVERY batsman in that game was playing at a level below Sehwag. You just had to be there to understand it...
    Sehwag actually has a good record when McGrath and Warne play. He's one of the few batsmen to average over 50 when BOTH those guys featured in the Aussie side (here's the list for those interested, only 7 guys have scored more than 200 runs at over 50 v Warne AND McGrath: Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com).

    But that wasn't my argument. My argument is that his record IN AUSTRALIA is overblown. And one of the reasons why is because his 2 series came against attacks that were much weaker than the usual 'Australian standard' of that time.

    Look, I like Sehwag and I'd be all for saying that his bad record in Eng, SA and NZ is a fluke, but his ODI records aren't good either. He averages less than 30 in Australia, South Africa and England, and above 35 everywhere else. Those places are where you expect a FTB to be found out.

    Anyway, the thing that makes him a FTB to me is that first innings-second innings disparity. A difference of 40 in your average? That's insane. He only plays well in the first innings - it's DAMN well, averaging 70, but still...

  8. #833
    International Regular Contra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifter132 View Post
    Sehwag actually has a good record when McGrath and Warne play. He's one of the few batsmen to average over 50 when BOTH those guys featured in the Aussie side (here's the list for those interested, only 7 guys have scored more than 200 runs at over 50 v Warne AND McGrath: Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com).

    But that wasn't my argument. My argument is that his record IN AUSTRALIA is overblown. And one of the reasons why is because his 2 series came against attacks that were much weaker than the usual 'Australian standard' of that time.

    Look, I like Sehwag and I'd be all for saying that his bad record in Eng, SA and NZ is a fluke, but his ODI records aren't good either. He averages less than 30 in Australia, South Africa and England, and above 35 everywhere else. Those places are where you expect a FTB to be found out.

    Anyway, the thing that makes him a FTB to me is that first innings-second innings disparity. A difference of 40 in your average? That's insane. He only plays well in the first innings - it's DAMN well, averaging 70, but still...
    I agree that in the 03/04 series the Australian attack was below standard but the one in 08 was pretty good. Brett Lee was at his peak, Stuart Clarke was as consistent as ever and while Mitchell Johnson was just starting out and not as good as he is now he was definitely better than Bichel and Bracken of 03/04. As for Brad Hogg well he wasn't bad, but not too good either. Sehwag in the 2 tours to Australia didn't face McWarne. But that's not his fault. In the first tour he faced a below par Australian attack ( even without McWarne) but the one in 08 was one of the better Post McWarne attacks of Australia.

    As for his ODI record I somewhat agree. For some reason he has never done well against Australia in ODI's. And that's both in Aus and India. It's one of those things you can't really explain because he never really "struggled" as such. He just kept getting out one way or another,lol. But coming to England he has only had 1 tour there way back in 02 IIRC so I'm not sure how much of his ODI and Test record can be used for discussions. SA he definitely struggled, no doubt about it. I will add however that he was out of form well before that particular tour in 06. And so that SA tour was the final nail in the coffin for him because he was dropped soon after. But take a look at his record in NZ in ODI's and it's awesome. He was the only person in that 02 tour in ODI's that had success. And he simply murdered the NZ in the 09 series (although those pitches were much better for batting). So all in all I wouldn't really use ODI's to say he struggled against the swinging ball.

  9. #834
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifter132 View Post
    Sehwag actually has a good record when McGrath and Warne play. He's one of the few batsmen to average over 50 when BOTH those guys featured in the Aussie side (here's the list for those interested, only 7 guys have scored more than 200 runs at over 50 v Warne AND McGrath: Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
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    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  10. #835
    JJD Heads Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    fair enough.

    here is the changed side.

    TEST XI

    hobbs (eng)
    hutton (eng 2)
    bradman - cap(aus)
    tendulkar (ind)
    sobers (WI)
    flower - wk (zim)
    imran (pak)
    hadlee (nz)
    shakib (bang)
    murali (SL)
    donald (SA)

    And a ODI XI would be...

    Tendulkar (ind)
    Jayasuriya (SL)
    Richards (WI)
    Kallis (SA)
    Flower - WK (zim)
    Fairbrother (eng 1)
    Shakib (bang)
    Flintoff - (eng 2)
    Hadlee - (nz)
    Akram - (pak)
    Mcgrath (aus)
    Instead of letting England have an extra ODI player (I mean why? They haven't been an ODI team for any longer than most) why not bring in a minnow legend like Tikolo?
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  11. #836
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ankitj View Post
    I know you are trying to fit in all teams, but I just want to say that Greenidge should be shoe-in as an opener (with Tendulkar) in an all time ODI XI. Consider this - Only Viv and Greenidge have a higher frequency of winning MoM awards than Tendulkar.
    but richards is the best ODI player of all time from west indies; he was miles ahead of greenidge. I am trying to make a XI using the best players from each team.
    Last edited by bagapath; 30-10-2010 at 10:49 PM.

  12. #837
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Instead of letting England have an extra ODI player (I mean why? They haven't been an ODI team for any longer than most) why not bring in a minnow legend like Tikolo?
    great idea....

    here is the changed ODI XI...

    Tendulkar (ind)
    Jayasuriya (SL)
    Richards (WI)
    Kallis (SA)
    A Flower - WK (zim)
    Fairbrother (eng 1)
    Ryan TD- (neth)
    Shakib (bang)
    Hadlee - (nz)
    Akram - (pak)
    Mcgrath (aus)

    will give full quota of overs to mcgrath, hadlee and akram. RTD, shakib, sanath and kallis can easily split the other 20 overs between them.
    Last edited by bagapath; 30-10-2010 at 10:49 PM.

  13. #838
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    great idea....

    here is the changed ODI XI...

    Tendulkar (ind)
    Jayasuriya (SL)
    Richards (WI)
    Kallis (SA)
    A Flower - WK (zim)
    Fairbrother (eng 1)
    Ryan TD- (neth)
    Shakib (bang)
    Hadlee - (nz)
    Akram - (pak)
    Mcgrath (aus)

    will give full quota of overs to mcgrath, hadlee and akram. RTD, shakib, sanath and kallis can easily split the other 20 overs between them.
    still feel Kallis sorta sticks out there..

  14. #839
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    still feel Kallis sorta sticks out there..
    rhodes? who was the best SA ODI player IYO? I am not a very big kallis fan, but his 40+ batting average and ability to bowl 10 overs (chipping in with a key wicket or two in the process) make him a very valuable asset in a ODI team.
    Last edited by bagapath; 31-10-2010 at 12:53 AM.

  15. #840
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    rhodes?
    yeah maybe. And have Sachin bowl. It gives the side another dimension in the field too.


    But what I would do, is drop Kallis and McGrath and get in Pollock and Bevan. Side balances out so much better for that.

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