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Thread: ***Official*** Spot-Fixing Scandal

  1. #901
    State Regular AaronK's Avatar
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    after today's match.. I feel like pakistani team has enough of it now.. they are tired.. this has been a very long and tiring tour for them.. not to forget all these controversies..
    maybe calling the tour off isn't going to be a bad idea since it seems like they can't focus in cricket.. not to forget, with some of the cheaters still in the team.. it seems like the players have lost faith on each other..

    when the controversy broke first.. Shahid afridi told a local pakistani channel that he knew about match fixing..`whether that contributed to his sudden retirement from test cricket or not.. I am not aware of the full detail..

    but it seems like some pakistani cricketers may have been involved in match fixing all through Aus tour..and looking back at some of the matches right now.. things seemed pretty much like a lost cause for pakistan speciall during the last few ODI matches during Aus tour..

    I am trying to make a sense of Afridi's ball biting..although this has beeen history now..

    maybe he took such a reckless action to prove to his teamates that while you guys are busy fixing matches and throwing matches.. I am going to put my life and career on the line to try to win matches for my country since you guys are not helping ..I mean I just don't think he is that stupied..
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  2. #902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    lol woah. That was the funniest disclaimer in brackets I've ever read.

    Anyway NOTW acted like pricks. But it was legal, and it wasn't unethical really. If they planted a camera in YH's house that's a different matter.
    Yeah it was, the reporter lied to YH about his name and told him that he was hooking him and Umar Gul up with a lucrative sponsorship deal on behalf of Emirates all just to get a couple of comments.
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  3. #903
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Yeah it was, the reporter lied to YH about his name and told him that he was hooking him and Umar Gul up with a lucrative sponsorship deal on behalf of Emirates all just to get a couple of comments.
    Also, comments that were pure speculation on his part and not based on any definitive proof or eyewitness account. They were then presented as some type of insider confirmation of everything that the NOTW had exposed.

    I have no problem with the initial sting operation that NOTW conducted. It was brilliant journalism and exposed a rotten core within Pakistani Cricket in specific and the broader cricketing world in general. However the YH "expose" was trash tabloid journalism at its worst.

  4. #904
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Yeah it was, the reporter lied to YH about his name and told him that he was hooking him and Umar Gul up with a lucrative sponsorship deal on behalf of Emirates all just to get a couple of comments.
    That's not unethical. Its underhanded maybe.

    How else can one do investigative journalism?

    You can not like investigative journalism, particularly of this nature. That's fine. But how else does one unlock secrets?
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  5. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Also, comments that were pure speculation on his part and not based on any definitive proof or eyewitness account. They were then presented as some type of insider confirmation of everything that the NOTW had exposed.

    I have no problem with the initial sting operation that NOTW conducted. It was brilliant journalism and exposed a rotten core within Pakistani Cricket in specific and the broader cricketing world in general. However the YH "expose" was trash tabloid journalism at its worst.
    Hang on, the method is different to what was gained. Two separate points. What YH actually said isn't what we're arguing here.

    If he had cameras and YH had come out and said "yeah I've also seen Yousuf (for e.g.) take money too", rather than his useless comments, would it then be unethical? No.

    NOTW got **** all from YH. However had they gotten him to admit that he had witnessed such things, or that he knew of players from other teams doing it, it'd be an epic story.

  6. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    That's not unethical. Its underhanded maybe.

    How else can one do investigative journalism?

    You can not like investigative journalism, particularly of this nature. That's fine. But how else does one unlock secrets?
    Mate unethical and underhanded are synonyms.
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  7. #907
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Hang on, the method is different to what was gained. Two separate points. What YH actually said isn't what we're arguing here.

    If he had cameras and YH had come out and said "yeah I've also seen Yousuf (for e.g.) take money too", rather than his useless comments, would it then be unethical? No.

    NOTW got **** all from YH. However had they gotten him to admit that he had witnessed such things, or that he knew of players from other teams doing it, it'd be an epic story.
    But that's exactly my point. They got **** all from him. Hence, the "sting" failed. They still presented it as this sensational story that confirms everything they've been saying. In doing so, they ruined YH's career and credibility and added to the rumor mongering that's already going on. Now, ultimately YH is to blame for this. But what was gained from them publishing the story/video? Nothing of value was revealed and the match fixing investigation did not gain any traction. So who benefited in the end? NOTW did, by selling a few extra copies. Trash journalism IMO.

  8. #908
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    Yeah well we don't exactly hold NOTW up there when talking about good ethics. I was awake for that bit.

    There is a fine line in investigative journalism, and often you cross it. Nothing gets done otherwise.

    Though releasing this footage is debateable. Personally have no qualms about it, because YH hardly said anything horrific, he just confirmed what was already suspected. It's decent evidence against the accused. YH should hardly be affected by it either. He didn't implicate himself, in fact he came out of it looking a lot better than a few of his team mates for refusing to spot fix.
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  9. #909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Mate unethical and underhanded are synonyms.
    No it's not, because different forms of ethics exist in different professions.

    What is acceptable as 'journalistic ethics' may not be accepted as 'legal ethics', or ethics within the medical profession.

    But being underhanded basically means to deceive. NOTW's investigation of the match fixing and the cameras in the hotel room were clearly deceptive. Were they unethical? No!

    So why was their original sting not unethical yet their sting of YH (even though they got **** all) unethical? It's the exact same thing.
    Last edited by Jono; 08-09-2010 at 01:16 AM.

  10. #910
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    But that's exactly my point. They got **** all from him. Hence, the "sting" failed. They still presented it as this sensational story that confirms everything they've been saying. In doing so, they ruined YH's career and credibility and added to the rumor mongering that's already going on. Now, ultimately YH is to blame for this. But what was gained from them publishing the story/video? Nothing of value was revealed and the match fixing investigation did not gain any traction. So who benefited in the end? NOTW did, by selling a few extra copies. Trash journalism IMO.
    Yeah but Fusion that's not what we were arguing. We were discussing whether the means of getting information was right or not.

    NOT whether what they got should have been published.

  11. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    No it's not, because different forms of ethics exist in different professions.

    What is acceptable as 'journalistic ethics' may not be accepted as 'legal ethics', or ethics within the medical profession.

    But being underhanded basically means to deceive. NOTW's investigation of the match fixing and the cameras in the hotel room were clearly deceptive. Were they unethical? No!

    So why was their original sting not unethical yet their sting of YH (even though they got **** all) unethical? It's the exact same thing.
    Being unethical is a moral issue, sure it may have workplace connotations but so does being 'underhanded'. Underhanded and unethical = one and the same. Phlegm noted before the differences between the good of the people and the good of the individual, a sting on a match fixer is different to a 'sting' on a clueless innocent cricketer. They basically robbed the testimony out of that guy.

  12. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    You can not like investigative journalism, particularly of this nature. That's fine. But how else does one unlock secrets?
    To quote Flem "there's the serving the best interests of society" point which is why when the NOTW uncovered massive corruption in cricket, it was ok that they did what they did to get there. Everyone gained, and they brought down some real villains.

    Here what did they accomplish? They did no good, all they did was get a cricketer's hopes up and then publicly embarrass him, and all for a soundbite and a headline.
    Last edited by pasag; 08-09-2010 at 01:39 AM.

  13. #913
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    All three of you now are arguing that they should not have released what they found, because YH gave them nothing. That's not the argument.

    If he gave them something what would you have all said?

  14. #914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    All three of you now are arguing that they should not have released what they found, because YH gave them nothing. That's not the argument.

    If he gave them something what would you have all said?
    The exact same thing, you can't steal testimonies from innocent parties. If he were involved in some way that saw money even slightly then yes a 'sting' would be okay but otherwise it is always unethical.

    Does that mean they should not do it? Yes. Does that mean they can and will not do it? No.

  15. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    All three of you now are arguing that they should not have released what they found, because YH gave them nothing. That's not the argument.

    If he gave them something what would you have all said?
    Well, I started the debate, so I make the terms here

    The point is though, that they launched a whole deceptive sting operation to get a measly quote. At the end of the day it isn't so much about publishing the comments but about the lying and deception that they employed for the sole purposes of getting a quote. Now by all means walk around in a groucho marx moustache if you're trying to bring down corruption and the like, but there's no way you can justify this sort of unethical crap for rubbish like this.
    Last edited by pasag; 08-09-2010 at 01:55 AM.



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