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Thread: Appreciating good techniques

  1. #16
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    All the posts so far have talked of batting technique, incidentally - as a swing bowler, one of the things I've come to appreciate a hell of a lot is something which seems so obvious when you think about it, but the combination of the position of the shoulder and the wrist.
    Yeah, was going to say, by all means, if people have other aspects they want to get clarified, or discuss their understanding of, please jump in. I picked one area at random.
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  2. #17
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    So, if I'm not irritating people by trying to reduce this down to simple criteria, what then defines good footwork to a pace bowler who's getting it to move a bit? If I were to try and define it, based on my very much armchair appreciation (my footwork in real life is absolutely tragic), it consists of:
    - remaining balanced, in terms of being steady and with your weight able to be smoothly transferred without lurching or stretching;
    - being definite: some guys seem to break this rule with elaborate trigger movements etc, but generally it seems that being able to pick a line and length early (not footwork, but again related) AND then making a definite move to either go forward or back;
    - from what Jack and Corey have been saying, the other aim is to get yourself in a good 'viewing' position to watch the ball to the bat, ie. head level and as close to still as possible, while attaining those other factors.

    Is that a fair summary?
    I think that you can simplify these points even further. The head determines both balance and vision.

    1. Eyes level and over the ball.
    2. This is achieved by forthright footwork.
    3. Play the ball under your eyes.

  3. #18
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    Yah and there's nothing to say you need to play at the ball. Having the head in good position means you'll be in a better position to judge leaving the ball if it's hooping which is almost as important.

  4. #19
    SJS
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    This is one of my favourite subjects so my posts are going to be long winded. I write as i think and do not want to go back and edit. Excuse me please

    On Footwork

    Its would be erroneous to consider footwork as synonymous with technique. But good footwork is one of the most vital ingredients of the 'learnt/taught' skills of the game.

    Hands(including arms) and your bat are what deal with the ball so most of the stroke execution is about how these two are used but to be able to do that well you need to get the rest of your body in the right place and that is what your feet (or footwork) is supposed to do. Thus footwork comes first. The only thing that comes before is your eyes but here I am talking of footwork.

    To learn the basics of footwork, one must, at the first step, leave lateral movement out. It makes it simpler.

    All balls, particularly if there is no lateral movement, can be hit. What is needed is for the batsman to decide where he wants to meet the ball with his bat and how does he move to have the best chance of getting his bat at that spot at the right time. (By the way, when you get these three aspects perfectly you have achieved the 'difficult to define term of timing). It seems a tall claim to say that all balls can be hit, but it really is true and the modern game, particularly the shorter version is showing more examples of it than we had in the past. The problem, however, is to be able to decide where you want to meet the ball - in front of the popping crease or behind it. In other words, do you want to go forward or back. An over pitched delivery is more easily spotted and the decision is made quickly to go forward. Same is true for the really short ball and going back. The problem lies in between.

    The good length ball is best defined as the ball where the batsman is not able to decide, quickly enough, whether to play back or forward. This is why bowlers are aiming to achieve this length and so many batsmen failing to score often off them.

    My coach used to say a very interesting thing. He said, you can be scared of a good length ball because you are not able to hit it without risk but if you are good enough, you could look at it differently and say, "A good length ball is that which can be played of either feet. All you need is to judge its length early enough to move decisively forward or back."

    Garfield Sobers in India at a function the other day said a very interesting thing. He said that having once been stumped, he decided never to be stumped again and it did not in any way hinder his stroke play. He either went fully forward or right back to the base of the stumps. This, with his height, gave hims something like 8-8.5 feet to play with. It was enough to play any length the bowlers bowled. All he needed was to decide early and move fully.

    So the first part of footwork, after one has decided the line/length, is to move forward or back AND do it decisively.

    A lot of batsmen suffer and not many are able to do what Sobers suggests because of their being either front footed or back-footed by inclination. Ideally one should be comfortable in both. Coaches, by and large, tend to reach front foot movements first and a predominance of turf wickets in coaching centers in many parts of the world make it easier for youngsters to prefer the front foot. This is unfortunate.

    The greatest batsmen of the world have been those who have been great backfoot players. This is not to say that front foot play is not important enough but trust me, if you see the ball early enough, you can play almost all of them off the backfoot (assuming you know how to) while front foot is restrictive.

    The video of Sobers's 254 (I think) against Lillee in Australia shows a shot where he goes back to what looks like a yorker and drives it on the half-volley (off his back foot) for a four.

    I am digressing but I want to emphasise the back foot movement since that is what is the bigger problem with modern players, particularly from the sub-continent where the low bounce of domestic wickets makes it easier to score runs even with a front foot game. Hence the Yuvraj's of India and the host of openers from Pakistan.

    to be continued....


  5. #20
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    Keeping your head inline with the ball isn't the best advice for playing swing bowling because that's how you get into a bad habit of falling across the crease. For example, if a bowler bowls several balls outside the offstump and you're trying to keep your head inline with the ball then your weight is going to be shifting to the offside; then the bowler bowls an inswinger and your weight is shifting to the offside then the likelyhood is that you're going to get rapped on the pads. You should keep your head still.

    Ideally, the best way to counteract good swing bowling is to stand outside your crease (assuming that you play the short ball like a god or you're willing to wear acouple on the body). Also, if you wanna play the percentages then only play shots off of your body and generally cut off any offside shots for the time being. Do that, plus playing straight and only flicking through midwicket when the ball is on leg stump (not off and middle) and you should be fine. Take it for what it's worth; I scored my first ton in Sydney Grade Cricket (where the state players play, not average joe park cricket) last week.

  6. #21
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    Keeping your head inline with the ball isn't the best advice for playing swing bowling because that's how you get into a bad habit of falling across the crease. For example, if a bowler bowls several balls outside the offstump and you're trying to keep your head inline with the ball then your weight is going to be shifting to the offside; then the bowler bowls an inswinger and your weight is shifting to the offside then the likelyhood is that you're going to get rapped on the pads. You should keep your head still.

    Ideally, the best way to counteract good swing bowling is to stand outside your crease (assuming that you play the short ball like a god or you're willing to wear acouple on the body). Also, if you wanna play the percentages then only play shots off of your body and generally cut off any offside shots for the time being. Do that, plus playing straight and only flicking through midwicket when the ball is on leg stump (not off and middle) and you should be fine. Take it for what it's worth; I scored my first ton in Sydney Grade Cricket (where the state players play, not average joe park cricket) last week.
    Read my lips....

    To learn the basics of footwork, one must, at the first step, leave lateral movement out. It makes it simpler.


  7. #22
    International Captain King Pietersen's Avatar
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    Good effort Ben, taken that average well above 12 now then! What grade was the hundred scored in? 4th?

  8. #23
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Standing outside your crease can actually make things more difficult, because it reduces your reaction-time, something a top-quality, pacy swing bowler will relish.

    Also, if the bowler is less than express pace and not of giant height, it's easy to put a stop to if you've got a good-quality wicketkeeper in your side. Minute I see someone doing that to me I tell the wicketkeeper to come up to the stumps (if he hasn't spotted it and done it himself, which he mostly has).
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Standing outside your crease can actually make things more difficult, because it reduces your reaction-time, something a top-quality, pacy swing bowler will relish.

    Also, if the bowler is less than express pace and not of giant height, it's easy to put a stop to if you've got a good-quality wicketkeeper in your side. Minute I see someone doing that to me I tell the wicketkeeper to come up to the stumps (if he hasn't spotted it and done it himself, which he mostly has).
    If you're a good enough batsman then batting outside of your crease shouldn't be much of an issue when it comes to reaction time. Matthew Hayden used to stand outside his crease and walk at bowlers bowling 140kph+.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Pietersen View Post
    Good effort Ben, taken that average well above 12 now then! What grade was the hundred scored in? 4th?
    Hows your cricket coming along anyway? Have you improved on your 62mph effort ball since last season?

  10. #25
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    If you're a good enough batsman then batting outside of your crease shouldn't be much of an issue when it comes to reaction time. Matthew Hayden used to stand outside his crease and walk at bowlers bowling 140kph+.
    When the ball wasn't swinging. Hayden only rarely faced a swinging ball after 2000/01.

    When the ball's coming at you at 140kph, unless you've got Jedi reflexes, you need all the reaction time you can get, and standing outside your crease is seldom a good idea.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    Read my lips....

    To learn the basics of footwork, one must, at the first step, leave lateral movement out. It makes it simpler.

    What I was saying didn't have much to do with footwork. Moreso having your head way outside offstump but being stuck on the crease, ala Alastair Cook.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    When the ball wasn't swinging. Hayden only rarely faced a swinging ball after 2000/01.

    When the ball's coming at you at 140kph, unless you've got Jedi reflexes, you need all the reaction time you can get, and standing outside your crease is seldom a good idea.
    The idea that Hayden rarely faced a swinging ball after 2000/01 is completely nonsensical and untrue. I don't see why it would hound the batsman to get back into his crease if the ball is swinging anyway, when that's the main reason why batsman come out of their crease in the first place.

    Last year in the 2020 Australia vs Allstars game, Hayden walked down at Siddle's 145kph delievery and smashed it straight back at Siddle for 4. Year out of retirement and all. Michael Clarke trains upto 160kph on the bowling machine aswell, on concete pitches aswell.

  13. #28
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    The idea that Hayden rarely faced a swinging ball after 2000/01 is completely nonsensical and untrue.
    I've talked enough of that elsewhere and have no wish to go through the whole thing for the 10,562,751st time, but suffice to say AFAIC, it is absolutely true.
    I don't see why it would hound the batsman to get back into his crease if the ball is swinging anyway, when that's the main reason why batsman come out of their crease in the first place.
    It might not hound the batsman back into his crease, but it'll sure as hell knock him over before long.
    Last year in the 2020 Australia vs Allstars game, Hayden walked down at Siddle's 145kph delievery and smashed it straight back at Siddle for 4.
    So?
    Year out of retirement and all. Michael Clarke trains upto 160kph on the bowling machine aswell, on concete pitches aswell.
    Yes, and 160kph is incredibly fast and the sort of thing you'd be beyond insane to stand out of your crease to.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I've talked enough of that elsewhere and have no wish to go through the whole thing for the 10,562,751st time, but suffice to say AFAIC, it is absolutely true.
    Yeah, well you can go over it again because it's complete rubbish. 197 vs England on youtube, there is footage of the ball swinging, South Africa 2005/06, The Oval 05, England @ MCG 06, The entire India vs Australia 2007/08 series and they are just examples off the top of my head where Hayden had to deal with the swinging ball at one point or another.

    It might not hound the batsman back into his crease, but it'll sure as hell knock him over before long.
    Not really, because the further you stand outside your crease, the less time it has to swing.

    So?
    Example of batting outside your crease (or in this case walking) with ease.

    Yes, and 160kph is incredibly fast and the sort of thing you'd be beyond insane to stand out of your crease to.
    Yeah, but if a batsman can handle 160kph whilst batting in his crease then facing 140kph outside of your crease would be like a cake walk in comparison.
    Last edited by wfdu_ben91; 09-03-2010 at 09:22 AM.

  15. #30
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    Yeah, well you can go over it again because it's complete rubbish. 197 vs England on youtube, there is footage of the ball swinging, South Africa 2005/06, The Oval 05, England @ MCG 06, The entire India vs Australia 2007/08 series and they are just examples off the top of my head where Hayden had to deal with the swinging ball at one point or another.
    I could go over it again, but I won't do, because I unlike some am a considerate person who doesn't want to bore everyone to death with posting of the type they're utterly sick of.

    Suffice to say that in none of those examples, except possibly the lattermost, did Hayden successfully combat the swinging ball.
    Not really, because the further you stand outside your crease, the less time it has to swing.
    Unless you're advocating standing halfway down the pitch it still has time to swing easily enough to cause batsmen problems if the bowler is one who aims his deliveries rather than acts on a metronome.
    Example of batting outside your crease (or in this case walking) with ease.
    Siddle is not a swing bowler - it's irrelevant. I've seen Hayden walk at bowlers quicker than Siddle (Craig White for instance) before now.
    Yeah, but if a batsman can handle 160kph whilst batting in his crease then facing 140kph outside of your crease would be like a cake walk in comparison.
    Not really. Different strokes for different folks.
    Last edited by Richard; 09-03-2010 at 09:34 AM.
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