Will West indies and Pakistan ever recover?

[WindieWeathers]

Haha yeah they are WW.

Well it's all about opinions Athlai, i mean if any of those has scored a 100 on their test debut like Barath i'd be surprised.

 

[Craig]

Given that Hughes already has a few Test centuries, Steve Smith has played a couple of ODIs and T20's, and is scoring centuries for NSW at FC level (something some the WI young players are not doing on a regular basis), Mitchell Marsh has starred at T20 level with the ball and is a real prospect (even making a double century in club cricket at the age of 17), Khawaja is being talked about as a chance of playing Test cricket this year and is scoring centuries at FC level, along with Steve Smith (just made 177 against Tasmania). Also Starc (just took 4/51), Halzewood, McDermott, again are highly rated players, and I believe the same is for Jason Floros (although I could be wrong), would suggest you are probably wrong Windie.

Even recently Hughes scored a 190-odd for NSW. Has Brathwaite done that?

Are these young players from the WI doing this at FC level at a much lower standard then what is the case in Australia? I believe the answer is no.

These young WI players may indeed all be talented, but that is sort of levels they have to reach if the WI is improve. These players are all of the similar age as the WI players as well.

FTR I'm not an Australian fan either.

 

[morgieb]

That's not even half of what we've got coming through!! , decent list but none of them are better than the likes of Barath, Roach, Pollard, Brathwaite, Holder imo

We'll see about that.

 

[Craig]

Well it's all about opinions Athlai, i mean if any of those has scored a 100 on their test debut like Barath i'd be surprised.

Wow.

And what did he do in his other three remaining innings? Scored 15, 3, and 17. Look Barath is a player of the future, but scoring a century on Test debut doesn't prove anything, I can name you two players who each scored a century on Test debut, and not only were they not good enough, they no longer play Test cricket.

 

[Slifer]

West Indies has been a terrible side since the early 90's and pakistani team has been in terrible form since 2003 world cup, will these two sides ever recover and once again be top sides in the world??

corrections, the WI have been a terrible side since about 99/00 onwards. Up til that point, only really Oz had their number (home and away). I think they're on their way up and should be a competitive force again hoepfully within the next 5 years or so

 

[Craig]

Pakistan be one of the best, but they don't want to.

 

[Howsie]

Hmmm, you know when somebody rates Kieron Pollard ahead of Phill Hughes their really isn't much point in discussing anything with them.

 

[Woodster]

Yeah i know the Aussies won the thing in the end because they were the best team, but when it came to individuals Brathwaite was by far the best batter going and Holder had the best figures of any bowler with his 5/19 against England, something even Hazlewood couldn't do, our domestic system might not be the strongest but it's certainly not the weakest either, it's all about ability at the end of the day and if our system can produce a Lara or a Chanderpaul what's stopping it from producing more world class talent? looking at Brathwaite and Holder it's abundantly clear that they will have very bright futures with WI, other nations can produce one gem every few years, all our gems just seem to be coming through at the same time right now which is why i believe we've got the best group around.

Braithwaite had a very good tournament, but a little perspective needs to remain. You're comparing Holder's 5-19 against something not even Hazlewood could do ? Didn't Hazlewood take 13 wickets in the tournament, something that not even Holder could do? I appreciate it's all about opinions, but playing a few decent games for the under 19 national side does not equate to a player with a genuine chance of becoming a world star! Think we've seen quite a few West Indians (as we have from every nation) fail to turn potential into actual performances at the highest level.

 

[SJS]

Wow.

And what did he do in his other three remaining innings? Scored 15, 3, and 17. Look Barath is a player of the future, but scoring a century on Test debut doesn't prove anything, I can name you two players who each scored a century on Test debut, and not only were they not good enough, they no longer play Test cricket.

There is a very interesting stat from India in this regard.

Gundapa Vishwanath who scored a century on debut in 1969-70, became the first Indian batsman with that feat to score a hundred again in a Test match.

As many as five Indians had performed this feat before and none of them scored another.

1. Lala Amarnath
2. Deepak Shodhan
3. Kripal Singh
4. Abbas Ali baig
5. Hanumant Singh

 

[The_roc]

Hmmm, you know when somebody rates Kieron Pollard ahead of Phill Hughes their really isn't much point in discussing anything with them.

It's difficult to compare the 2 given that Pollard has never played test cricket and Hughes has never played international one day cricket.

What you can say is Hughes is averaging less thyan 23 in his last 7 test innings, so if Pollard does get in the Windies team he won't have too much to beat.

 

[The_roc]

Regarding the original topic, I can see some time in the wilderness for both teams.

The Windies have limited resources and most of those would rather emulate Michael Jordan than Viv Richards. I don't see another Brian Lara on the horizon.

There is a wealth of talent in Pakistan, but they spend most of their time arguing. Until they can find somebody to pull it all together the chaos will continue.

 

[NUFAN]

i could name at least 15 or more who've got a very good chance of making test cricket for us, with the Aussies the only decent one i saw was Hazlewood to be honest.

That's because it's obviously easier 'making' Test Cricket for West Indies.

 

[Goughy]

U19 cricket is pretty cool and useful but it should not be used to assess potential at Test level.

If someone goes great in U19s, it is notice to watch this kid and see how he goes in adult cricket but it isnt notice that this kid has arrived or accomplished anything. Using performance in U19 cricket is pointless in projecting to the highest level.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Wow.

And what did he do in his other three remaining innings? Scored 15, 3, and 17. Look Barath is a player of the future, but scoring a century on Test debut doesn't prove anything, I can name you two players who each scored a century on Test debut, and not only were they not good enough, they no longer play Test cricket.

The 17 he made after he got the 100 he only got out because Gayle hit the ball onto his stump and the umpire thought it hit Haritz's hand even though it clearly didn't!! , you can talk about the Aussie youngsters but none of them have got a 100 against a side as strong of Australia, until they do Barath must have the edge, and if you're not a Aussie fan you certainly know a lot about them, clearly more than you do about the WI kids.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Hmmm, you know when somebody rates Kieron Pollard ahead of Phill Hughes their really isn't much point in discussing anything with them.

I rate Barath higher than Hughes i didn't talk about Pollard specifically did i?

 

[WindieWeathers]

Braithwaite had a very good tournament, but a little perspective needs to remain. You're comparing Holder's 5-19 against something not even Hazlewood could do ? Didn't Hazlewood take 13 wickets in the tournament, something that not even Holder could do? I appreciate it's all about opinions, but playing a few decent games for the under 19 national side does not equate to a player with a genuine chance of becoming a world star! Think we've seen quite a few West Indians (as we have from every nation) fail to turn potential into actual performances at the highest level.

Yeah Hazlewood took a whole ONE WICKET more!!!, big deal! , btw Holder is also part of the Barbados side and is playing FC cricket too, so he is making his way forward in the game it's not just about his u19's performances.

 

[Howsie]

I rate Barath higher than Hughes i didn't talk about Pollard specifically did i?

Phillip Hughes
Steven Smith
Josh Hazlewood
Mitchell Marsh
Mitchell Starc
Usman Khawaja
Alister McDermott

There's probably a few more also.

That's not even half of what we've got coming through!! , decent list but none of them are better than the likes of Barath, Roach, Pollard, Brathwaite, Holder imo

Yeah you did.

 

[Howsie]

The 17 he made after he got the 100 he only got out because Gayle hit the ball onto his stump and the umpire thought it hit Haritz's hand even though it clearly didn't!! , you can talk about the Aussie youngsters but none of them have got a 100 against a side as strong of Australia, until they do Barath must have the edge, and if you're not a Aussie fan you certainly know a lot about them, clearly more than you do about the WI kids.

I guess you missed the game where Hughes scored two 100's in one game against South Africa in South Africa?

 

[NUFAN]

The 17 he made after he got the 100 he only got out because Gayle hit the ball onto his stump and the umpire thought it hit Haritz's hand even though it clearly didn't!! , you can talk about the Aussie youngsters but none of them have got a 100 against a side as strong of Australia, until they do Barath must have the edge, and if you're not a Aussie fan you certainly know a lot about them, clearly more than you do about the WI kids.

Have you never heard of Phil Hughes and his twin centuries in his second Test?

I don't really get why you always compare the fringe West Indies players with Australia, you should be comparing it with sides like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I guess you missed the game where Hughes scored two 100's in one game against South Africa in South Africa?

Yeah i must have, you got a link? and if he did do that why didn't he play against WI?!! ..

Btw Hughes wasn't 19 like Barath when it did it was he?!!