***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[Ikki]

Ponting never had to face his own bowlers who were the best among their eras, EVER.

Tendulkar barely faced them as well in the 90s. And did mediocrely when he did altogether. Also Ponting has battered comparable bowlers (Donald, Murali, et al) to show that he wasn't beating on peons. His domestic record against McGrath and Warne is imperious also.

For a decade?? Ponting has had a better avg than Tendulkar only since 2005 end. So that makes it about 5 years.

W/o minnows in 00s:

Sachin: 47
Ricky: 57

Easy period.

 

[satyam]

I don't mean every year; I referring to the fact that in the 2000s, which is considered easier, Ponting is far and away superior to Tendulkar. So in the decade that was supposedly easy, Tendulkar had more than enough time to build on his average. The fact that in the 00s w/o minnows he averages 47 overturns any perception of easiness.

Agreed ponting>sachin

And going by same logic

Sehwag>>>>>Viv Richards

 

[Ikki]

Agreed ponting>sachin

And going by same logic

Sehwag>>>>>Viv Richards

How is that using the same logic?

I'm not miffed by anyone saying Sachin > Ricky. But I find it amusing that this is being propped up as another reason to pat Tendulkar on the bat when Ricky never got credit for it.

 

[satyam]

Tendulkar barely faced them as well in the 90s. And did mediocrely when he did. Also Ponting has battered comparable bowlers (Donald, Murali, et al) to show that he wasn't beating on peons. His domestic record against McGrath and Warne is imperious also]

What happened to punter now? If sachin did medoocrely against Mcgrath, warne how does Warne, Mcgrath rate him so highly.

 

[Athlai]

I don't mean every year; I referring to the fact that in the 2000s, which is considered easier, Ponting is far and away superior to Tendulkar. So in the decade that was supposedly easy, Tendulkar had more than enough time to build on his average. The fact that in the 00s w/o minnows he averages 47 overturns any perception of easiness.

Hard to claim a whole decade though mate. I'd say Tendulkar has comfortably been better than Ponting since 2007. And that Ponting was marginally better 2002-2004.And far far better 2005-2006. Tendy would also probably get everything pre-2002 as well.

Tendulkar's second coming has been pretty amazing, I thought he was done and dusted around the WC while Ponting looked unstoppable. Ponting's recent failures in NZ just show that professional bowling and good captaincy can exploit him now.

 

[Ikki]

What happened to punter now? If sachin did medoocrely against Mcgrath, warne how does Warne, Mcgrath rate him so highly.

Same reason Lara and Sachin rate Warne so highly. They are superb players.

 

[satyam]

How is that using the same logic?

I'm not miffed by anyone saying Sachin > Ricky. But I find it amusing that this is being propped up as another reason to pat Tendulkar on the bat when Ricky never got credit for it.

After all it is batting average and runs that count. SO sehwag has both better than him and also strike rate.

 

[Jono]

I dislike a lot of what Ikki says, but I do agree with him. Sachin having a higher average than Ponting right now doesn't mean he's better than him. It is hypocritical to bring it up now, when Ponting had a higher average (as did Dravid) for so long, yet it wasn't mentioned then (for those supporting Tendulkar).

None the less, what it does suggest (and you're lying to yourself if you don't admit it) is that over the last 2-3 years Sachin has been the better batsman in tests (ODIs too actually).

 

[Sir Alex]

Tendulkar barely faced them as well in the 90s. And did mediocrely when he did. Also Ponting has battered comparable bowlers (Donald, Murali, et al) to show that he wasn't beating on peons. His domestic record against McGrath and Warne is imperious also.




W/o minnows in 00s:

Sachin: 47
Ricky: 57

Easy period.

How about 1996-2005 then?

Has 5 years in the 2000s as well.

Without Bangladesh (the true minnow), Sachin averages 57.10 against Ponting's 56.27 Isn't that a decade as well?

 

[Ikki]

How about 1996-2005 then?

Without Bangladesh (the true minnow), Sachin averages 57.10 against Ponting's 56.27 Isn't that a decade as well?

You seem to be lost on the point I am making. I am not saying a decade's worth of superiority means total superiority.

You mentioned the fact that a large part of Tendulkar's run-making came in a tougher era. Frankly, that's true. However, is overturned by some very important points:

1) Ponting also played in that tougher era.
2) In that period against the best opponents he scored well - the ones he failed at were the worst, which hardly distinguishes making runs against them in the 90s or 00s anyway.
3) They BOTH played in the 00s (the decade I used) yet Ponting is a mile in front.

Had we compared players who played in different eras, you'd have a point. But Tendulkar also played in the 00s. He also had the chance, and he didn't do it. Hence, pointing out the fact that he did superbly in the 90s should go hand in hand with pointing out that he did worse in the 00s when it was "easier".

P.S. Zimbabwe is a true minnow. For almost all bar a very small period of time during the turn of the century were they not.

 

[bagapath]

tendulkar never performed less than "good" against aussie bowlers ever. even in the 3-0 drubbing india received in australia in 99-00 he was the man of the series. he was excellent against them in every series except the 04-05 home series. saying he was mediocre against the best aussie bowlers is either dishonesty or ignorance.

ponting was a far better batsman than tendulkar for a large part of the 00s. his superior record against the better teams in the 2002 - 2007 period indicates that. now sachin is better than him.

 

[Maximus0723]

Stop discounting minnows. Didn't you see Sachin's match saving 100 vs BL recently.

 

[Burgey]

I dislike a lot of what Ikki says, but I do agree with him. Sachin having a higher average than Ponting right now doesn't mean he's better than him. It is hypocritical to bring it up now, when Ponting had a higher average (as did Dravid) for so long, yet it wasn't mentioned then (for those supporting Tendulkar).

None the less, what it does suggest (and you're lying to yourself if you don't admit it) is that over the last 2-3 years Sachin has been the better batsman in tests (ODIs too actually).

This.

Also, great to see this thread active again after a sad hiatus of one month

 

[Ikki]

tendulkar never performed less than "good" against aussie bowlers ever. even in the 3-0 drubbing india received in australia in 99-00 he was the man of the series. he was excellent against them in every series except the 04-05 home series. saying he was mediocre against the best aussie bowlers is either dishonesty or ignorance.

ponting was a far better batsman than tendulkar for a large part of the 00s. his superior record against the better teams in the 2002 - 2007 period indicates that. now sachin is better than him.

Except for when he regularly faced McGrath. Who regularly didn't play a full series due to injuries. He averages 36.77 in matches against him. I wouldn't start claiming that as good.

I bring up McGrath due to the fact that Sir Alex points out that we had the best attack of the era, EVER. When that couldn't have been so without McGrath in the line-up.

Stop discounting minnows. Didn't you see Sachin's match saving 100 vs BL recently.

That's maybe 1 inning. It does not invalidate the notion that they are a piss-poor team - pardon the harshness.

 

[satyam]

And yes if you want to remove zimbawe of 1990-2000, remove WI of 2003-2008. WI never toured India since 2002. They have toured Australia twice in that period.

 

[Ikki]

I dislike a lot of what Ikki says, but I do agree with him. Sachin having a higher average than Ponting right now doesn't mean he's better than him. It is hypocritical to bring it up now, when Ponting had a higher average (as did Dravid) for so long, yet it wasn't mentioned then (for those supporting Tendulkar).

None the less, what it does suggest (and you're lying to yourself if you don't admit it) is that over the last 2-3 years Sachin has been the better batsman in tests (ODIs too actually).

That's all that needs to be said. And frankly, even if you were Ponting's #1 fanboy you can't deny that Tendulkar has been better in the last few years.

 

[Athlai]

WW to explode and make this thread a waste zone.

 

[bagapath]

guys.... i brought up the average not to prove sachin is a better batsman than ponting overall. he always was, even with a lower average. he always will be even after ponting eventually overtakes him once again.

my point was exactly what it I had written, that sachin's average has gone above ponting's after a long time! with sachin doing so well of late the numbers are beginning to go in the right direction after a gap of few years. if we all were to sit down and decide when ponting's superiority ended may be this point will be an important statistical milestone. that is it. dont mix it up with the bigger argument; that is solved already. ponting is a great batsman. but he will be one plane below sachin, forever.

 

[satyam]

Except for when he regularly faced McGrath. Who regularly didn't play a full series due to injuries. He averages 36.77 in matches against him. I wouldn't start claiming that as good.

I bring up McGrath due to the fact that Sir Alex points out that we had the best attack of the era, EVER. When that couldn't have been so without McGrath in the line-up.



That's maybe 1 inning. It does not invalidate the notion that they are a piss-poor team - pardon the harshness.

What is the average of Punter against Ambrose and Walsh. I think not something to be proud of.

 

[Ikki]

After all it is batting average and runs that count. SO sehwag has both better than him and also strike rate.

Ponting and Sachin played in the same era. Hence the easiness of batting was more or less experienced by both. So arguing that one had it easier in a certain period is irrelevant when the other batsmen also played in that era and did worse.

Sehwag and Viv are from two entirely different eras.

It is not the same logic.