Can Ponting overtake Tendulkar?

[JBH001]

Think Tendulkar the better bat, albeit not by much.

I also think his, that is Sachin's, record against SA at home indicates little, if that.

Finally, at the moment it looks like Ponting wont overtake Tendulkar. It may happen, but I hope not. If he does though, all props to Ponting.

[Ikki]

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

But the Zimbabwe that Tendulkar played was better than today's Windies and Pakistan!

And remember what I had said then? When Zimbabwe were better (circa 2001) Tendulkar has scored less 100s against them and more against WIndies. So if we swapped them around it would hurt his record. It doesn't really matter, 1 100 here or there is unlikely to be the difference between them.

Think about it; Ponting has played less cricket, for less time, yet if you remove minnows he is only 2 100s behind. Since he is younger, it's more than likely he'd surpass that difference. The reason it may look doubtful is that in reality he is 8 100s behind. Why? Because Tendulkar accumulated more 100s, playing more, and a good chunk of them came from minnows. That's the point. Do you disagree with that?

My point is that to counter that Ponting has to play more minnows and more cricket. It sounds crude, but that's the truth.

[jeevan]

You really want to open the can of worms that the Zimbabwe that SRT scored all his 3 tons against (all prior to 2002) were no more of a minnow than the post 2001 WI that Ponting scored 6 of his 7 against?

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by Ikki

My point was never that Sachin needed home advantage. Something that's been overlooked here. As I said, the two points where Ponting and Sachin really differ are:

1) Tendulkar has played minnows more often and accumulated many more 100s
2) Tendulkar has been playing cricket longer and thus has accumlated more 100s.

Tendulkar did not play as many test matches as Ponting did during their respective peaks, or atleast same number of test matches due to the ODI deluge of the late 90s and early 00s. Also despite being a year and half apart Tendulkar debuted 6-7 years before Ponting is certainly his achievement.

Of course there is the matter of Ponting getting to play today's West Indies and Pakistan of today.

[Maximus0723]

Sachin batted against far stronger attack then Ricky has for longer period of time. that lowered his average and if ricky did same, he would be lower then 55.5.

[Maximus0723]

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

Tendulkar did not play as many test matches as Ponting did during their respective peaks, or atleast same number of test matches due to the ODI deluge of the late 90s and early 00s. Also despite being a year and half apart Tendulkar debuted 6-7 years before Ponting is certainly his achievement.

Of course there is the matter of Ponting getting to play today's West Indies and Pakistan of today.

Pakistan has good bowling attack. Better then India's.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Ikki

Said Tendulkar's #1 fanboy on this forum. Anyway, other than keeping up with him, I don't know what I've said is biased.

I wish I was Sachin's #1 fanboy, but unfortunately I'm not

It's pretty common knowledge how biased you are tbh. You can close your eyes to it or change your forum name like before, it won't change.

[JBH001]

Originally Posted by Migara

Ponting's case is a bit curious one. I think he can play offspin very well ubless it's not bowled by Harbhajan, but tends to struggle when ball spins away. Kumble had success over him, and in SL it was Herath, Chandana etc were the spinners dismissing him, not Murali. The reason may be that no team ever had a class SLA bowler to exploit that weakness.

Dont know if its just that, tbh. T_C had a good comment a while back that its because Ponting rates Murali, and doesnt really rate Harbhajan. He may have a point, the couple of times I have seen Murali and Ponting face off, Ponting has been all concentration. He has done well against Murali too, although Murali has also claimed him a few times. Always a good contest to watch, too.

[Ikki]

Originally Posted by jeevan

You really want to open the can of worms that the Zimbabwe that SRT scored all his 3 tons against (all prior to 2002) were no more of a minnow than the post 2001 WI that Ponting scored 6 of his 7 against?

Yet Tendulkar who faced the same weak attack in 02 couldn't muster much against them - ironically 2 of his 3 100s against WIndies come in the time they were weak. See, if they've both played them when they were weak, it's Tendulkar's inability that should stand out. It doesn't matter if they're weak or even not Test class. Tendulkar had his shot, and didn't score. Conversely, Ponting has not had his shots against B/Z.

This is like me mentioning Tendulkar playing Pakistan more. In 00s Tendulkar has 1 century in 11 tests; Ponting has 4 in 9. Yes, Ponting may have scored a bit more had he played more but that's not the real difference between them.

The real difference is B/Z. Ponting's played them far fewer times and situation is compounded since they're the opponents most likely to score 100s against.

Also, Zimbabwe prior to 02 were minnows and Tendulkar had scored 2 100s prior to 02 against a very weak Zimbabwean attack.

[Ikki]

Originally Posted by Jono

I wish I was Sachin's #1 fanboy, but unfortunately I'm not

It's pretty common knowledge how biased you are tbh. You can close your eyes to it or change your forum name like before, it won't change.

I love that it's common knowledge. Thanks for your two cents. I'll see you the next time someone brings your idol down for a moment or the next time someone praises him and spites someone else.

Originally Posted by Jono

Haha yes, so good reading that stuff.

Sachin's away record is fantastic.

Don't worry, you just keep at it though, you'll get to #1 eventually.

[Jono]

Cool, I look forward to it.

And indeed, I do enjoy fallacies like people saying Sachin has scored all his runs on flat decks being proven wrong. It's quite satisfying.

I'm sure I'll see you around the next time India are struggling to, as you've openly admitted you love seeing.

[Maximus0723]

how does one go about being sachin's number one fan.

would like to know this

[Ikki]

Originally Posted by Sir Alex

Tendulkar did not play as many test matches as Ponting did during their respective peaks, or atleast same number of test matches due to the ODI deluge of the late 90s and early 00s. Also despite being a year and half apart Tendulkar debuted 6-7 years before Ponting is certainly his achievement.

It's debatable if that would have helped his career or not. Possibly could have faltered or tired out. As much an achievement it is to debut as such a young age for Tendulkar; it's also an achievement to play that much cricket in such a short time and at such a high level that he is now in striking distance of the man. It goes both ways.

Of course there is the matter of Ponting getting to play today's West Indies and Pakistan of today.

As if today's WIndies attack is any different to the one Sachin faced in 02. And if anything, Pakistan's attack is better now than it has been at many times during this decade - which is not really a talking point since Tendulkar has only scored 1 century in the last decade against them.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Maximus0723

how does one go about being sachin's number one fan.

would like to know this

You get sponsored by him like this bloke:



Sachin sponsors his travel expenses I heard.

[Ikki]

Originally Posted by Jono

Cool, I look forward to it.

And indeed, I do enjoy fallacies like people saying Sachin has scored all his runs on flat decks being proven wrong. It's quite satisfying.

Like I said that. Nice try. You were going to mention to me which part of my points were particularly biased? Was mentioning that he scored many 100s against minnows biased, or merely a fact? I see, it hurts...so it's biased.

That's right, you just say something, try to pass yourself as centred and hide your bias. Because only those like me have bias right.

I'm sure I'll see you around the next time India are struggling to, as you've openly admitted you love seeing.

Of course, I love my rivals faltering. I don't pretend I am not biased...unlike some.