All-time XI's (uber-nerd content).

[rivera213]

Peeps,

I'm interested to see your all-time XI's.

All of mine (I have 2 for England, the 2nd largely my Grandad's opinion IAH) are players who played in what I call the "Modern Era" (people who were playing test cricket in 1970 onwards) and some exceptions based on footage I've seen which leads me to believe said player(s) would be better than the others in their position. I've tried to keep players to the batting position they played throughout their career though there are some exceptions.

There are no rules. Pick your XI however you want.

ENGLAND (Pre-1970):
Len Hutton
Bill Edrich
Wally Hammond
Denis Compton
Ken Barrington
Ted Dexter (use as AR)
Les Ames
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Alec Bedser
Brian Statham

ENGLAND (Post-1970):
Graham Gooch
Geoffrey Boycott
Colin Cowdrey
David Gower
Robin Smith (ahead of Graham Thorpe on aesthetics)
Ian Botham
Alec Stewart
John Snow
Darren Gough
Derek Underwood
Bob Willis

INDIA:
Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Dilip Vengsarkar
Kapil Dev
Farokh Engineer
Anil Kumble
Javagal Srinath
Bishan Bedi
Bagwath Chandrasekhar

WEST INDIES:
Gordan Greenidge
Desmond Haynes
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Clive Lloyd
Garry Sobers
Jeff Dujon
Malcolm Marshall
Joel Garner
Michael Holding
Curtly Ambrose

AUSTRALIA:
Allan Border
Justin Langer
Donald Bradman (better technique than Ricky Ponting- larger array of strokes, great footwork etc)
Greg Chappell
Steve Waugh
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Jeff Thomson (if only not for the collarbone injury...)
Glenn McGrath

SOUTH AFRICA:
Barry Richards
Graeme Smith (just ahead of Eddie Barlow)
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Daryll Cullinan
Jonty Rhodes
Mark Boucher
Mike Procter
Shaun Pollock
Makhaya Ntini
Allan Donald

PAKISTAN:
Saeed Anwar
Hanif Mohammad
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Inzamam-ul-Huq
Imran Khan
Moin Khan
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
Abdul Qadir
Shoaib Akhtar


- Steve

 

[zaremba]

Donald Bradman (better technique than Ricky Ponting- larger array of strokes, great footwork etc)

... because his inclusion requires specific justification

 

[rivera213]

Ha ha.

Well I've always said I pick XI's based on seeing them live or footage. I haven't seen too much of Bradman but I've seen all of Ponting's career so soeone may say "I thought you haven't seen much of Bradman" so I answered the question before it arises.

 

[zaremba]

Just out of interest, what strokes did Don Bradman play which Ricky Ponting doesn't?

 

[Flem274*]

New Zealand

Glenn Turner Bat: 44.64
Stewie Dempster Bat: 65.72 (10 tests) thank you selection policy of no pro players for losing Dempster
Bert Suttcliffe Bat: 40.10
Martin Crowe Bat: 45.36
Martin Donnelly Bat: 52.90 (7 tests, WWII)
John R Reid Bat: 33.28 Bwl: 33.35 (RFM, OS)
Ken Wadsworth Bat 21.48
Richard Hadlee Bat: 27.16 Bwl: 22.29 (RF)
Bruce Taylor Bat: 20.40 Bwl: 26.60 (LFM)
Shane Bond Bwl:22.39 (RF, Right arm fragile)
Jack Cowie Bwl; 21.53 (RFM)

 

[Burgey]

Just out of interest, what strokes did Don Bradman play which Ricky Ponting doesn't?

Well, in a grade match when he was playing for St George, he apparently saw a short boundary over point, so as the opening bowler came in, he backed away, bowler attempted a yorker, Bradman got under it and hit it over point for six.

Haven't seen Punter do that yet

 

[rivera213]

Just out of interest, what strokes did Don Bradman play which Ricky Ponting doesn't?

It's not really the number of strokes Bradman plays above Ponting, it's the number of strokes he was able to play from a particular ball and to a particular field.

1 famous instance, the bodyline series, saw us have a 6-3 or 7-2 leg-side field and Bradman (with his excellent footwork) was able to get to the ball and hit cover drives, off drives, straight drives via dancing down the wicket as well as back-foot shots such as square cuts, cuts infront of square, late cuts and leg side shots (once we had to move fielders to protect the off-side) such as the leg clip (aka front foot leg glance), chip over midwicket, pull shot, hook shot etc. His back-foot leg glance was excellent also which was obviously useful on quick pitches.

Considering he held his bat turned towards the leg side, people would assume that was his strength was on side shots, but the footage I've seen actually shows him to be particularly great at drives. I haven't seen near enough of Bradman as I'd like to see though.

His drives in particular were well above Ponting and while Ricky has a number of shots himself (great on the leg side, playing any type of cut- aerial or along the floor etc) he hasn't show to be as adaptable to a field as Bradman was in the footage I've seen.

Having said that, you're not going to find much footage of Bradman playing and missing, poorly timed shots etc since the only footage from that era which still remains is good footage. I'm sure someone has a whole archive of Bradman stuff good and bad but I haven't seen any of the bad.

 

[rivera213]

New Zealand

Glenn Turner Bat: 44.64
Stewie Dempster Bat: 65.72 (10 tests) thank you selection policy of no pro players for losing Dempster
Bert Suttcliffe Bat: 40.10
Martin Crowe Bat: 45.36
Martin Donnelly Bat: 52.90 (7 tests, WWII)
John R Reid Bat: 33.28 Bwl: 33.35 (RFM, OS)
Ken Wadsworth Bat 21.48
Richard Hadlee Bat: 27.16 Bwl: 22.29 (RF)
Bruce Taylor Bat: 20.40 Bwl: 26.60 (LFM)
Shane Bond Bwl:22.39 (RF, Right arm fragile)
Jack Cowie Bwl; 21.53 (RFM)

I must admit, half of those players I know little about.

Martin Crowe & Richard Hadlee I've seen a fair bit of obviously.

Shane Bond strikes me as someone with a lot of talent who has wasted it.

I would put Fleming in there somewhere, if only as Captain (like Brearley with us in the 70's).

Anyways, glad you did a NZ team, I was struggling! Lol.

 

[Michaelf7777777]

Australia

Arthur Morris
Sid Barnes
Don Bradman
Greg Chappell
Alan Border
Keith Miller (*)
Adam Gilchrist (+)
Ray Lindwall
Clarrie Grimmett
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn McGrath

England

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Dennis Compton
Walter Hammond
W.G. Grace (*)
Ian Botham
Les Ames (+)
Fred Trueman
Hedley Verity
Alec Bedser
S. F. Barnes

India

Sunil Gavaskar
Virendar Sehwag
Rahul Dravid (*)
Sachin Tendulkar
Lala Amarath
Vijay Hazare
Kapil Dev
S. Kirmani (+)
Bishen Bedi
Amar Singh
Baghwat Chandrasekhar

New Zealand

Stewie Dempster
Bert Suttcliffe
Stephen Flemming (*)
Martin Crowe
John Reid
Martin Donnelly
Richard Hadlee
Daniel Vettori
Ken James (+)
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

Pakistan

Hanif Mohommad
Saeed Anwar
Zaheer Abass
Javed Miandad
Inzamam
Imran Kahn (*)
Mushtaq Mohommad
Wasim Akram
Wasim Bari
Fazal Mahmood
Waqar Younis

West Indies

Conrad Hunte
Gordon Greenidge
Everton Weekes
Viv Richards
Sir Garfield Sobers
Frank Worrell (*)
Geoffrey Dujon (+)
Malcolm Marshall
Curtley Ambrose
Joel Garner
Michael Holding

 

[Flem274*]

Who is Ken James, Michael?

Wouldn't have Fleming either (or Vettori), he'd make the second XI, but his captaincy isn't needed with Crowe and Suttcliffe in there, also teams that include Hadlee, Cowie, Bond and someone whose not Vettori have enough firepower to do some serious damage. Flemings batsmanship isn't all time NZ XI material either, as much as I'd like it to be.

 

[Flem274*]

I must admit, half of those players I know little about.

Martin Crowe & Richard Hadlee I've seen a fair bit of obviously.

Shane Bond strikes me as someone with a lot of talent who has wasted it.

I would put Fleming in there somewhere, if only as Captain (like Brearley with us in the 70's).

Anyways, glad you did a NZ team, I was struggling! Lol.

No probs. Half those guys played in our early years and were very good but unfortunately, the 30s guys got pinged by the "pro players (county guys) cannot play for NZ" rule which I found in a book written by Ian Smith. Also there were the well known issues of half the team being crap, WWII (which got every test nation) and the lovely word, injury.

Selecting NZ teams that include the early years involve consideration of small number of games played vs what they achieved vs county performances or eyewitness reports of what they've done away from NZ representation as well.

A 1960 onwards team would probably look like:

Turner
Sutcliffe
Crowe
Reid (John F, a batsman from the 80s, had quite a good record, mid forties iirc)
Donnelly (though if we exclude him due to stuff all tests, then JR Reid moves up one)
JR Reid
C Cairns
Wadsworth
Hadlee
Taylor
Bond

 

[NUFAN]

Rivera why do you have Border opening?

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Shane Bond strikes me as someone with a lot of talent who has wasted it.

Makes it sound like you think he got injured on purpose.

 

[zaremba]

It's not really the number of strokes Bradman plays above Ponting, it's the number of strokes he was able to play from a particular ball and to a particular field.

On the strength of the limited available footage, of which you admit to only having seen part, how can you possibly say this with any confidence? Unless you allow yourself to be swayed by contemporary accounts, of course.

 

[oitoitoi]

Rivera regarding the WI XI no George Headley? Regarding South Africa I'd put Vince van der Bijl in there ahead of Ntini even though he never played a test. I would not like to face that Pakistani bowling attack, or the West Indian one at that. Don't think having Cowdrey in your post 1970 XI is right considering he was well past his best by that stage (no 100's and just 1 50 vs NZ).

 

[oitoitoi]

Sod it I'll have a go

West Indies:

Conrad Hunte
Gordon Greenidge
Headley
Lara
Sobers
Viv Richards
Dujon
Marshall
Roberts
Holding
Ambrose


India:

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Vijay Hazare
Tendulkar
Dravid
Kapil Dev
Engineer
Kumble
Srinath
Bedi
Chandrashekar


Pakistan:

Saeed Anwar
Hanif
Zaheer Abbas
Miandad
Inzamam
Imran Khan
Moin Khan
Wasim Akram
Fazal Mahmood
Saqlain Mushtaq
Waqar Younis


I think you have to split England and Australia into at least 2 eras.


Australia Pre War:

Victor Trumper
Ponsford
Bradman
McCabe
Woodfull
Monty Noble
Bert Oldfield
O'Reilly
Grimmett
Charlie Turner
Fred Spofforth


Australia Post War

Morris
Hayden
Bradman
Harvey
Walters
Miller
Gilchrist
Davidson
Lindwall
Lillee
Mcgrath

No Warne I know, but with 4 genuine quicks and mcgrath, who needs a spinner?

I'll add England later, pre war takes some research, post war takes a lot of thought

 

[Manee]

No Warne I know, but with 4 genuine quicks and mcgrath, who needs a spinner?

Any team could do with Warne. Even though I am a big fan of fast bowling, I'd always have a spot for Warne in an All Time Australian XI.

 

[pasag]

Australia Pre War:

Victor Trumper
Ponsford
Bradman
McCabe
Woodfull
Monty Noble
Bert Oldfield
O'Reilly
Grimmett
Charlie Turner
Fred Spofforth

Hill and Armstrong would be certain starters pre-war.

 

[oitoitoi]

Hill and Armstrong would be certain starters pre-war.

Armstrong's record vs England (the only other decent side of his day) was pretty mediocre, average 33 with the ball so his record is a bit misleading. Thought Turner and Spofforth were better options and Grimmett and O'Reilly had to be played. Only 2 quicks and 3 spinners but I figured what the hell.

 

[pasag]

Armstrong's record vs England (the only other decent side of his day) was pretty mediocre, average 33 with the ball so his record is a bit misleading. Thought Turner and Spofforth were better options and Grimmett and O'Reilly had to be played. Only 2 quicks and 3 spinners but I figured what the hell.

Armstrong was the premier bat in the world in his day, fantastic bowler as well (in terms of bowling all day and giving away virtually nothing) though it came out more in FC level where the side relied on him more. From memory the stats don't tell the whole story due to him playing on past his peak and also missing vital a tour during his peak due to the Big 6 fiasco.

Off the top of my head, would have pre-war:

Trumper
Ponsford
Bradman
McCabe
Hill
Armstrong
J. Gregory/ Noble
Blackham
O'Reilly
Grimmett
Fred Spofforth

Post war:

Hayden
Lawry
Ponting
Chappell
Harvey
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Lindwall
Lillee
McGarth

Bradman left out of post-war to make it more interesting.