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Thread: Your All-time Top 5's

  1. #31
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    I'm having a quiet chuckle that anyone should place Ian Healy in their Top 5 wicketkeepers of all time.

    Top 5 Australian keepers since WW2, maybe. But even then, only just.
    Interesting thought. As a pure keeper Healy would be the best Aussie I've seen but I only go back as far as Marsh.

    Good to see Les Ames getting some recognition here as well.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    I'm having a quiet chuckle that anyone should place Ian Healy in their Top 5 wicketkeepers of all time.

    Top 5 Australian keepers since WW2, maybe. But even then, only just.

    When the thread is finished maybe we can have a poll for the Top 5 chuckles.
    The two that got me were Farokh Engineer as a batsman wicketkeeper (more to do with people not in the list) and Saqlain Mushtaq as one of the spinners.

  3. #33
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Top 5 Wristspin Bowlers

    1. Sydney Barnes
    And we're back to the whole "what did SF Barnes bowl" business once again...

    Oh sure, we all agree he's the "greatest of all time", but no-one really seems to know if he was a fast bowler, fast/medium, medium, medium/slow, seamer, fingerspinner, swerve-and-drift merchant, or (and I think you may be in the minority on this one Richard) wristspinner.

    Given that we in truth have very little idea about such basic facts about his bowling, it feels a bit glib to set him on such an unassailable pedestal.

  4. #34
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    When the thread is finished maybe we can have a poll for the Top 5 chuckles.
    You can count me in.


  5. #35
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Interesting thought. As a pure keeper Healy would be the best Aussie I've seen but I only go back as far as Marsh.

    Good to see Les Ames getting some recognition here as well.
    I'm not particularly well-qualified to comment on the ability of wicketkeepers (I suspect few are, in fact). But I always thought he was over-rated, and given a wonderful opportunity by keeping to Shane Warne in Tests, and Australia was massively strengthened by his belated replacement by Adam Gilchrist.

  6. #36
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    And we're back to the whole "what did SF Barnes bowl" business once again...

    Oh sure, we all agree he's the "greatest of all time", but no-one really seems to know if he was a fast bowler, fast/medium, medium, medium/slow, seamer, fingerspinner, swerve-and-drift merchant, or (and I think you may be in the minority on this one Richard) wristspinner.

    Given that we in truth have very little idea about such basic facts about his bowling, it feels a bit glib to set him on such an unassailable pedestal.
    Perhaps the unassailability is heighened by the fact no-one seems to truly know what he bowled. If we don't know 100 years down the line, it's very unlikely batsmen did at the time.

    For all we know, he could indeed have defied classification. Sobers, after all, bowled all styles to passable (at worst) standard. Certainly far from impossible that Barnes did something similar - to a much higher standard.

    Wristspin being the most difficult of all styles, and the fact that the "Barnes ball" has always seemed to be like what is these days classified as Leg-Break, I've always thought wristspin would be the category to put him in, if any.

    And let's face it, to omit him from any such list would be borderline criminal.
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  7. #37
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Perhaps the unassailability is heighened by the fact no-one seems to truly know what he bowled. If we don't know 100 years down the line, it's very unlikely batsmen did at the time.

    For all we know, he could indeed have defied classification. Sobers, after all, bowled all styles to passable (at worst) standard. Certainly far from impossible that Barnes did something similar - to a much higher standard.

    Wristspin being the most difficult of all styles, and the fact that the "Barnes ball" has always seemed to be like what is these days classified as Leg-Break, I've always thought wristspin would be the category to put him in, if any.
    But this just proves my point - you seem to be admitting that it's all guesswork.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    And let's face it, to omit him from any such list would be borderline criminal.
    Very true. But ditto Spofforth, ditto Grace. You may say they played in a different era about which we know little, which is true, but so did Barnes (and MA Noble for that matter).

  8. #38
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    But this just proves my point - you seem to be admitting that it's all guesswork.
    There is guesswork involved, to varying degrees, in just everything where summing-up cricketers compared to one another are concerned. Some degree of assumption must always be done. I don't feel there's an unacceptable amount of guesswork involved in classifying Barnes a wristspinner.
    Very true. But ditto Spofforth, ditto Grace. You may say they played in a different era about which we know little, which is true, but so did Barnes (and MA Noble for that matter).
    Clearly, less is known about the period 1900-1929 than from 1930 onwards - once the newsreels got properly into coverage, starting with Bradman's Ashes, we can have a fair idea of what exactly was going-on, in a way we could not in the Golden Age nor the 1920s.

    Nonetheless, the period before the 20th-century dawned is shrouded in more mystery than ever. This, in some ways, is appealing. Yet it is also cloaked by certainties about what was not the same. Grace and Spofforth were masters of their time, and two of the biggest players in the game's evolution. Yet the game in the 19th-century was often unrecogniseable for what it was after the 20th dawned. Pitches and prevailing styles (of batting and bowling) are just two ways. I can just about feel comfortable comparing those of the first three decades of the 20th-century with their successors - though it's true I have misgivings and in some cases prefer not to. The same is not true of 19th- to 20th-century comparisons. I'm only happy leaving the two as separate, and that those who were great in one were great in their own and great cricketers. In leaving the two separate, I am in no way attempting to denigrate the excellence of those whose excellence occurred in the 19th-century.

  9. #39
    U19 12th Man Bonnie Prince C's Avatar
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    Top 5 Opening Batsman

    1. Herbert Sutcliffe
    2. Len Hutton
    3. Jack Hobbs
    4. Sunil Gavaskar
    5. Matthew Hayden

    (Greenidge very close)

    Top 5 Middle-Order Batsman

    1. Don Bradman
    2. Sachin Tendulkar
    3. Viv Richards
    4. Graeme Smith
    5. Ricky Ponting

    Top 5 Allrounders

    1. Sir Garfield Sobers
    2. Jacques Kallis
    3. Imran Khan
    4. Ian Botham
    5. Keith Miller

    Top 5 Wicketkeeper-Batsman

    1. Adam Gilchrist
    2. Les Ames
    3. Kumar Sangakkara
    4. Alec Stewart
    5. Alan Knott

    Top 5 Spin Bowlers

    1. Shane Warne
    2. Muttiah Muralitharan
    3. Anil Kumble
    4. Jim Laker
    5. Lance Gibbs

    Top 5 Pace Bowlers

    1. Glen McGrath
    2. Curtley Ambrose
    3. Malcolm Marshall
    4. Wasim Akram
    5. Fred Trueman

    Top 5 Cricketers

    1. Sir Donald Bradman
    2. WG Grace
    3. Sir Garfield Sobers
    4. Shane Warne
    5. Sir Vivian Richards

  10. #40
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
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    Top 5 Wicketkeeper-Batsman

    1. Adam Gilchrist
    2. Kumar Sangakkara
    3. Alan Knott
    4. Alec Stewart
    5. Ian Healy
    I'd take Andy Flower over Stwart any day, any time.
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  11. #41
    U19 12th Man Bonnie Prince C's Avatar
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    Personal I would too. But I feel that his keeping was not good enough to merit him being on an all-time list.

  12. #42
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    When the thread is finished maybe we can have a poll for the Top 5 chuckles.
    The two that got me were Farokh Engineer as a batsman wicketkeeper (more to do with people not in the list) and Saqlain Mushtaq as one of the spinners.
    Awesome idea- maybe then we can concentrate all of LT's general snobbishness towards people with different opinions into one manageable, bitesize thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  13. #43
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    I'm having a quiet chuckle that anyone should place Ian Healy in their Top 5 wicketkeepers of all time.

    Top 5 Australian keepers since WW2, maybe. But even then, only just.
    Obvious nostalgia/hype bias there.

    Healy was better than all his contemporaries and better than his replacement (who was at worst on a par with the best of his contemporaries). Given that Healy kept to Warne (and did a fantastic job at it) so successfully, I would not find it difficult at all to believe that he's in the top 5 wicket keepers of all time.

    His batting wasn't too shabby either. Making a ton against some of the best WIndies quicks (Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop) is no mean feat.

    From cricinfo: "He beat Wally Grout, Don Tallon, Rod Marsh et al to the keeper's job in the Australian team of the 20th century."

  14. #44
    Cricketer Of The Year Anil's Avatar
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    greatest openers

    barry richards
    sunil gavaskar
    len hutton
    jack hobbs
    bert sutcliffe

    greatest middle order players

    don bradman
    graeme pollock
    viv richards
    brian lara
    garry sobers

    greatest wicket-keepers

    godfrey evans
    alan knott
    bob taylor
    ian healy
    don tallon

    greatest all-rounders

    garry sobers
    imran khan
    ian botham
    keith miller
    alan davidson

    greatest fast bowlers

    malcolm marshall
    dennis lillee
    curtly ambrose
    richard hadlee
    glenn mcgrath

    greatest spin bowlers

    muthiah muralitharan
    bill o'reilly
    shane warne
    jim laker
    erapalli prasanna

    greatest players

    don bradman
    garry sobers
    imran khan
    viv richards
    jack hobbs
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Welcome to CW mate. Hope you enjoy here.

    Your lists are all pretty good, but the relative placement of the two bolded players in the bit I quoted here is likely to be fairly strongly disagreed by a lot of people. The general view is, in my experience, that Hobbs was the greatest of openers. Meanwhile, opinion on Hayden is pretty strongly divided in these parts. Many, myself included, rate him very highly, while others feel he wouldn't have had the success he did in another era. Either way, even he fans probably wouldn't place him above the other 4 you've named there.
    Arguably Hobbs is the greatest opener based on myths, opinions, etc.

    On the otherhand, Hobbs did play in an era which featured unlimited days and days off. Nowdays, openers can fatigue from spending days in the field before getting sent in to bat in the last hour and a half of play. Hobbs, obviously wasn't put at that disadvantage.

    Hayden & Gavaskar are the two best openers, IMO. If you check hundreds scored overall by Opening Batsman then they are way ahead of the rest of the pack. Hayden's scored 100's more regulary then any other batsman of the modern era. Statistics don't do Hayden justice because he wasn't as selfish as Gavaskar and didn't bat for his average.

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