*Official* England in West Indies

[ozone]

Honestly can't see England losing the Test Series. Think there might be a good contest in the ODIs though. If we do come unstuck in the tests, it'll be because of a lack of experience in the West Indies. Was watching highlights of the 2004 series and line up for the first test was:
Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Flintoff
Read
Giles
Hoggard
Jones
Harmison

Although on paper we're probably stronger now, that side was far more experienced in the West Indian conditions and most of our runs (before the last test) in 2004 came from the middle order, players who had played in the WIndies before.

On a completely different note, whatever happened to Tino Best?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

His Test average for 2008 was 101. But then we shouldn't be too surprised: in 2007 he averaged 111.

Makes him the first since Bradman to average above 100 in successive years.

(Imran, Hammond, J Edrich and Boycott all managed it with years in between. Greg Chappell and a chap called Bryan Valentine did it too, but only had one innings.)

 

[aussie]

An issue that bothers me is that at the end of these 6 test vs WI, that Flintoff will make runs @ 6 and will bat their in the Ashes againts an Australian attack that those goofy selectors are likely to get right by then.

Which at the end of the day i still don't think its the best position for Master Fred.

 

[Pothas]

Same sort of thing could be said for a number of players though. I can certainly see Harmison putting in a couple of good matches and getting selected for the rest of the year.

 

[roseboy64]

On a completely different note, whatever happened to Tino Best?

Still playing FC cricket.

 

[TT Boy]

Since when is Bravo good enough to bat at 5?

That is kind of funny considering Marshall bats at three and Chattergoon opens, init? Bravo is good enough to bat five for the West Indies.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Honestly can't see England losing the Test Series. Think there might be a good contest in the ODIs though. If we do come unstuck in the tests, it'll be because of a lack of experience in the West Indies. Was watching highlights of the 2004 series and line up for the first test was:
Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Flintoff
Read
Giles
Hoggard
Jones
Harmison

Although on paper we're probably stronger now, that side was far more experienced in the West Indian conditions and most of our runs (before the last test) in 2004 came from the middle order, players who had played in the WIndies before.

On a completely different note, whatever happened to Tino Best?

Pfft. I reckon only KP of the newbies would get in ahead of the 2004 XI.

 

[Uppercut]

Pfft. I reckon only KP of the newbies would get in ahead of the 2004 XI.

Probably, yeah. Might have Strauss opening instead of Vaughan. England were so much better five years ago...

 

[fredfertang]

Still playing FC cricket.

Isn't he an ICL boy though? - I liked the way Tino played the game - will be a shame if we don't see him on the big stage again

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Was just working out that Bravo doesn't seem fit for 6. Based on WI standards he's good enough for the top 6 though and would prefer Chaderpaul at 4. Bravo seems to play better higher up the order and since he's an allrounder 3 would be too early for him to bat.

Kallis much? Theoretically an allrounder of Bravo's ability should be able to bat at 3 in future.

Edwards has been bowling well in Tests. Didn't play against Pakistan and I don't remember him doing well otherwise. Powell seems of use in ODIs as well.

The point being that he's high on confidence and bowling well in general now. As such, given the limited resources of West Indies cricket, he has to play ODI cricket. I'd also expect him to make to a bigger impact than Darren Sammy in almost any given set of conditions.

In the right conditions Sammy can keep things tight, but given his lack of pace he's also likely to be targeted for aggressive play. He does nothing significant with the ball either. Edwards, on the other hand, has a good yorker, good pace, can swing the ball. Both are likely to go for runs more often than not, but Edwards is infinitely more likely to take wickets.

I figure siince he's been given a chance he should get an extended run of at least 3 series to prove whether he's ready or not. If he gets found out at international level and gets dropped it should inspire him to look at what was wrong and fix it.

I feel the same about Pollard as I felt about Ganga, Xavier Marshall, Dw Smith and Powell. They're risking ruining him by playing him at this stage in his career.

Wasn't saying anything about Findlay being useful. Except maybe in the field it seems.

Well you did say that like Findlay Pollard should be given a chance because he appears tohave the qualities needed. It seems a straightforward implication. My apologies for misunderstanding you.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

That is kind of funny considering Marshall bats at three and Chattergoon opens, init? Bravo is good enough to bat five for the West Indies.

Chattergoon is a better opener than he has looked recently. He had a really rough year in general with injuries.

My point regarding Bravo is because he's a genuine building block for the future. The other two aren't as secure in the future of West Indies cricket. With that in mind, and building (hopefully) toward a proper Test outfit, Bravo isn't a worthy top 6 player. In the context of Test cricket, not West Indies cricket. If we focus on making Bravo into a top 6 player at this stage, we will be missing the point as to the real gaps in the batting lineup. West Indies needs to uncover batsmen worthy of batting in the top and middle order of a Test lineup. We can't settle for nextbestthing or else we'll be forever doomed to sub-mediocrity.

Besides, the way Xavier Marshall batted against Australia, he was more than worthy of a top 3 spot. I know, I know, he hasn't done it since...

 

[GIMH]

Pfft. I reckon only KP of the newbies would get in ahead of the 2004 XI.

Depends; Prior is a better 7 than Read but a worse Keeper, but with Hoggard-Jones-Harmison at 9-10-11 then I imagine the batting keeper would be selected, although Giles is at 8. Also, and this might cause a stir, but I reckon i'd have Colly over Butcher, though it would mean rejigging the batting line-up. Then again, if we're bringing Strauss in to open, we can stick Vaughan at 3 and leave Butcher out that way. Make sense?

 

[Uppercut]

Depends; Prior is a better 7 than Read but a worse Keeper, but with Hoggard-Jones-Harmison at 9-10-11 then I imagine the batting keeper would be selected, although Giles is at 8. Also, and this might cause a stir, but I reckon i'd have Colly over Butcher, though it would mean rejigging the batting line-up. Then again, if we're bringing Strauss in to open, we can stick Vaughan at 3 and leave Butcher out that way. Make sense?

Hmm, yeah, second thoughts Vaughan at 3 with Strauss opening and Butcher out sounds good. Would still have Read over Prior though, even today.

 

[GIMH]

Well it depends what you are looking for. Read is undoubtedly a better keeper than Prior (though not as good as some would have you believe, never seemed to know when the ball was his and when it was first slip's) but Prior easily a better batsman.

 

[Uppercut]

It's personal preference to some extent, if i'm honest. Every time i hear the little nick with Prior behind the stumps i think "please don't drop it.. please... please no..." but every time i hear it with Read behind the stumps i think "GOOONE ". Unless of course i'm not supporting England in that match.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, can't disagree with that. Read's problem was diving for stuff that was Tresco's, and not diving for stuff that was his, ie he couldn't judge when things should be left for slip. Geraint Jones () had the same problem, but it was worsened by his butter fingers in the 04-05 period.

 

[steds]

Read's problem was that people thought (and some still think) that he's some sort of super hero behind the stumps, when he's decent-good.

He wasn't in the 2004 XI btw. It was Geraint.

 

[susudear]

Tino Best

On a completely different note, whatever happened to Tino Best?

ICL.

 

[susudear]

Unless of course i'm not supporting England in that match.

When does it happen?

 

[Uppercut]

When does it happen?

Depends who they have playing for them. In the days of Hoggy and Jones and Trescothick, cheering for England was the natural response. In this dark era of Ian Bell and Jimmy Anderson, I'd probably have them behind South Africa and Sri Lanka.

I'd like them to win on this tour but having said that, if the West Indies come out and blow them away I'll feel nothing but happiness for them. Everyone gets nostalgic for a good West Indies side once in a while.