Australia's tour to Pakistan unlikely

[aussie]

And you are incorrect that every country has worries about touring Pakistan. It is only the countries from 'Your World' that have a problem with it. Of course they are within their rights, but so am I do take exception to their hypocritical and ignorant stance on the issue.

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Well all major cricketening countries outside Asia rather, since WI played neutral in 2002, NZ ran out in 2002. Don't agree that Australia view is hypocritical & ignorant since they are in their rights to have worries about touring but i do reckon they would be safe. I reckon though there is a deeper reason why the senior team doesn't want to go though...

As for Aussie teams having problems with SL, just how old are you ? Go read up on the1996 World Cup..

18 son, 96 WC just before my time in watching cricket which began in 97, Australia have played 2 full series there since that i have full memory off so no worries of touring SRI in recen times.

Ofcouse it doesn't happen in 'Your World' and even if the bomb exploded in their pants it wouldn't scare the players.

, i see you are taking this to heart. Can't fault you though was looking foward to seeing Akhtar/Asif/Gul together..

 

[Johnners]

If I thought the job involved the risks me or my family couldn't take, I wouldn't go no matter what the payrise is. Also before making the decision I will make sure that I make an informed decision and not based on what I see in the news channels.

I will speak to people who live there, read about the place and people and find alternate sources to educate myself.

That's fair enough that you wouldn't take a job with increased risks for family reasons, but not everyone is the same as you. Some people may be willing to take more risks than yourself for an increased wage, others, like yourself might not, in the end, it's up to the individual. To call someone mentally bankrupt because they want more money to do their job in what they perceive as an environment of increased risk is harsh. Also, how do you know that the players themselves aren't seeking further information regarding the situation in Pakistan?

 

[Sanz]

I'll give you an example, most people I know that have never been to Israel ask me how I can go when there is so much violence and terror and all that sort of stuff happening there. I tell them that it's quite safe and on the ground there you never really feel under threat. But I understand how most people will come to that conclusion though from what they see on the news and in the media - it's only natural.

Good example and something I can relate to as well. My last company(my Employer) was bought by an Israeli company and I obviously like many had same mis-information about Israel that are fed by the media on the daily basis. I had never traveled to Israel and it wasn't even a remote possibility so I didn't care about knowing the ground realities of the place. When the possibility came(although it never materialized) I spoke to few colleagues who had been to Israel and their response was 'It is all in the media, and life is perfectly normal'. Their word was enough for me get rid of my mis-informed opinion about the place.

It is perfectly understandable when people who have nothing to do with the place make a conclusion about a place. But should there be an opportunity for you to visit the place and you make your decision on the mis-informed opinion you have based on the blatant lies fed by media, then I think it is a pretty illiterate and ignorant way of dealing with stuff in life.

 

[Sanz]

You're right, countries like Pakistan and Israel are only ever in the news when people die, but you can't blame the players for the information that they've been presented with. Blame the media if anything. So when that comes together with security reports which say not to go, I don't think there's much wrong with them being highly concerned.

Why should I blame media for people's inability to educate themselves. Main stream media is reporting material which it thinks will get most viewers. There are enough avenues in the media itself to form an informed opinion about a certain country.

Besides, its not just the media that is not giving the players the ground realities about the place. There was a so called 'Security Briefing' given to the players which has advised the players against making the tour. I would like to know who and what was involved in that security briefing and how did they reach the conclusion that Pakistan is not a safe place to tour.

 

[Sanz]

.
18 son, 96 WC just before my time in watching cricket which began in 97, Australia have played 2 full series there since that i have full memory off so no worries of touring SRI in recen times...

Well in that case, you shouldn't be calling me 'Son'. Because If I were successful first time, my son would have been your age.

 

[Sanz]

That's fair enough that you wouldn't take a job with increased risks for family reasons, but not everyone is the same as you. Some people may be willing to take more risks than yourself for an increased wage, others, like yourself might not, in the end, it's up to the individual. To call someone mentally bankrupt because they want more money to do their job in what they perceive as an environment of increased risk is harsh. Also, how do you know that the players themselves aren't seeking further information regarding the situation in Pakistan?

They are conrtacted by their boards to play cricket in Pakistan, India and SriLanka and other parts of the world. They knew the risk before they signed the contract. This so called risk has been around for ages and not something that popped out of the sky.

I dont know if players are seeking information regarding the situation in Pakistan, although the more I read about it, the more it seems that they have already made up their minds.

 

[pasag]

The point is though, that you can't blame a person for the misconceptions about the an area when they turn on the TV and they see a lot of unrest there. Couple that together with the independent security report and their worries becomes more understandable.

As far as I know, CA were unsure about the situation and whether or not it was unsafe and commissioned an investigation into things there. That came back advising not to tour so what do you expect when the players then don't want to, based on all of this?

 

[Sanz]

Obviously CA and the investigation didn't find it necessary to know Lawson's views on the subject.

One more run to gilly and I promise I will go to bed. Its freaking 2:25 am, have to wake up @ 6:30. Only reason I have been awake is for Gilly's Century. There it is.

Well Done Gilly and Good Night all. Adios.

 

[Johnners]

They are conrtacted by their boards to play cricket in Pakistan, India and SriLanka and other parts of the world. They knew the risk before they signed the contract. This so called risk has been around for ages and not something that popped out of the sky.

I dont know if players are seeking information regarding the situation in Pakistan, although the more I read about it, the more it seems that they have already made up their minds.

It was my understanding that the situation in Pakistan now, is more unstable than it was last time Australia toured Pakistan? The players aren't fortune tellers, and cannot predict what the political situation of foreign countries is going to be like in the future.

 

[Dasa]

I can sort of understand the misgivings players and CA have about touring Pakistan having been in a somewhat similar situation recently myself .That was in Kenya and I ended up going anyway although I had to leave early due to the trouble. Still, I'm disappointed the tour won't go ahead and in the same situation I'd definitely go.

 

[silentstriker]

Yeah, I'm not sure how fair that is Sanz, from watching the news and the general media a general perception can be created about a place even though it might be completely safe and nothing will ever happen there. England however we have alot to do with and can see that it's pretty safe there, there's a lot less fear of the unknown when it comes to there. That coupled with independent security reports saying not to go means its understandable players could concerns about touring in Pakistan.

I also wouldn't compare it to SA and other tours in recent times because the concern now is the specific general unrest that has occurred since then.

I also think it's not that illogical that terrorists would target the cricket team if they had any understanding how important they are to Australians and Australia being one of America's staunchest allies, makes them very much a threat especially given their high profile if they'd tour. Not a huge stretch there.

I don't think it's hypocritical if you'd say they wouldn't go now but they would for higher sums of money for an IPL type thing, that's just natural human nature. A person won't want to put themselves at increased risk for their normal salary and job, but compensate them more and they'll do it. I don't see anything wrong with that, you're paying more for increased risk.

As a cricket fan though, I'd be quite disappointed if the tour would be called off. Any time we lose Test matches with the limited amount we have, it's pretty sad and I was looking forward to it quite a bit. Tbh, I reckon every player should be asked if he wants to go or not and it's their choice and if they choose not to, some younger players can be asked and tested overseas. Would still be very exciting in its own way to see those players getting a chance.

The point is though, that you can't blame a person for the misconceptions about the an area when they turn on the TV and they see a lot of unrest there. Couple that together with the independent security report and their worries becomes more understandable.

As far as I know, CA were unsure about the situation and whether or not it was unsafe and commissioned an investigation into things there. That came back advising not to tour so what do you expect when the players then don't want to, based on all of this?

People can have misconceptions, board's shouldn't. The board should excuse anyone who doesn't want to go if they have concerns for personal safety, but the tour should go on. You can say terrorists 'may' target you, but anyone 'may' target you. A couple of thugs on the street can come up with a plan to rob a cricket player. You can't tour anywhere now? The chance of you getting hurt in a terrorist attack is an order of magnitude less than getting hurt any other way, unless you are specifically being targeted.

And in the case of SA in SL, they even came out and said we don't do that stuff, and they're certainly not going to do it with a Tamil like Murali in the cricket team. Same with Pakistan, if its one thing that everyone has in common, it's cricket. If a bomb ever goes off in Australia, or again in England, people may use the same excuse against them - and it would be just as ridiculous. Of course, teams can adopt a rule where 'we won't go if there has been a terrorist bombing', and pretty soon you'll be playing in New Zealand all the time. Basically, Bin Laden's people in Pakistan will target a high profile event or a set of people like a cricket match or team, but Bin Laden's people in London somehow won't? Indian players tour all the time, and obviously they aren't all that well loved by terrorists.

If I were the PCB, I'd certainly be extremely pissed tbh. I said earlier that Sydney isn't going to fracture world cricket for long, but this type of thing certainly would (Australia haven't toured Pakistan since 1998....).

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Something to consider: Even a shortsighted terrorist can see that any Test cricketer hurt or killed in Pakistan would lead to an unequivocal cancellation of all tours there for a decade or more. I REALLY can't see that endearing the perpetrators to what's been portrayed as a cricket-crazy populace, which sure as hell wouldn't further their agenda. That's the biggest deterrent to any danger that hasn't been mentioned, I think.

 

[social]

Australian government's official position on travel to Pakistan

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Pakistan

Basically, if you dont have to go (and the cricketers dont), stay away

 

[TT Boy]

Australian government's official position on travel to Pakistan

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Pakistan

Basically, if you dont have to go (and the cricketers dont), stay away

And he is the FCO advice on travelling to Pakistan.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front...7029390590&a=KCountryAdvice&aid=1013618386307

Essentially like the Australians, one really should think again about travelling. Practically everywhere in the country is not immune to high levels of violence, be it terrorism or sectarian violence, both of which have a penchant for targeting westerns - evident in the suicide attack at the Marriott Hotel (wonder if the bomber checked to see if cricketers were staying their first?) and the attempted attack on Islamabad International Airport.

 

[Fusion]

Australian government's official position on travel to Pakistan

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Pakistan

Basically, if you dont have to go (and the cricketers dont), stay away

A few things to consider here:

(1) Technically, they do have to travel as they have an obligation. They are not going for fun or tourism reasons, but rather to fulfill an agreement with the PCB. It is another matter that no one can/should be forced to tour anywhere, but I'm just pointing out that there are legal obligations here.

(2) The Australian cricket team is not equal to a random tourist/businessman traveling to Pakistan. They will be granted state-level security, which is afforded to heads of state. Security for all touring sides has been exceptional and no one ever said they felt threatened while touring Pakistan, to the best of my knowledge.

Again, I respect the Australian's right not to tour, no matter how much I disagree with their assessment of a security threat. However, please don't make it sound as ridiculously simple as "the government advises generally not to travel there so it must be unsafe". As Sanz has pointed out, Jeff Lawson would disagree with that advisory (and so would have the late Bob Woolmer).

 

[Fusion]

And he is the FCO advice on travelling to Pakistan.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front...7029390590&a=KCountryAdvice&aid=1013618386307

Essentially like the Australians, one really should think again about travelling. Practically everywhere in the country is not immune to high levels of violence, be it terrorism or sectarian violence, both of which have a penchant for targeting westerns - evident in the suicide attack at the Marriott Hotel (wonder if the bomber checked to see if cricketers were staying their first?) and the attempted attack on Islamabad International Airport.

Other countries that are also on the caution list (for parts or whole): India, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh. Yet, I doubt any South African or Australian player has issues playing in India. This is just an advisory. Everyone has to assess the situation and ground realities before deciding to go. In my opinion, parts of Pakistan aren't any more dangerous than parts of South Africa. In the end, it's up to the individual to decide their comfort level about touring, and I will respect their decision, however grudgingly.

 

[silentstriker]

Haha, yes, I'd love to see those same senior players refuse to tour India, or play in the IPL, or sign those million dollar endorsement deals and do advertisements in India.

 

[subshakerz]

Needless to say, similar concerns were made when Lawson took the job and I saw his interview to an aussie channel, it was pretty shameful and at the same time ignorant the way whole panel tried to present Pakistan to their viewers. No Wonder their cricketers and in general their fans are so ignorant about the country.

I remember that show. I couldnt get over the way they ridiculed the entire country and cricket team, what a disgrace. I hope the rest of Ausssie talk shows are not like that.

 

[nightprowler10]

Other countries that are also on the caution list (for parts or whole): India, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh. Yet, I doubt any South African or Australian player has issues playing in India. This is just an advisory. Everyone has to assess the situation and ground realities before deciding to go. In my opinion, parts of Pakistan aren't any more dangerous than parts of South Africa. In the end, it's up to the individual to decide their comfort level about touring, and I will respect their decision, however grudgingly.

To add to this, in comparison to Pakistan, Indian extremist groups have threatened Pakistani and Bangladeshi teams time and again yet I have never heard a peep from the Australian board about touring India.

You know, the more I think about this the more I get aggravated. I'm out of this thread. FFS I'm sending my parents to Pakistan next week and, shock and horror, they won't have security guards following them around yet I'll sleep fine (and no that has nothing to do with any insurance money).

 

[jeevan]

Haha, yes, I'd love to see those same senior players refuse to tour India, or play in the IPL, or sign those million dollar endorsement deals and do advertisements in India.

The same bad people in Pakistan have cousins in India too, who have been just as effective in killing prime ministers, school children in buses, families in their homes and foreigners too. And like almost everything else Indian, we can boast of an unrivalled diversity of such terror-perpetrators in terms of religion, language etc.

I do hope the Indian team responds positively to the backup plans, though. Pakistan is not an unfamiliar place for them, and despite the heavy workload a week or two of a few ODIs will be worth it at so many different levels. ( India can raise a very respectable XI from those not even in the main ODI squad, to mitigate workload - Ganguly.Dravid,Zaheer, AA, Yusuf etc etc).