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98/99 Feast or Famine?

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
I wanted to have a look at Test debuts for 1998 and 1999 as these are players coming up to 10 years as Test cricketers and should be in their prime.

Now I dont know if it is too different to other periods (as I havent looked) but what struck me was that there was a lot of ordinary cricketers with a few very good ones standing out.

There appears to be little depth in the quality after the initial 'star players'.

Is this potential 'lost generation' of decent-good Test roles players that should be in their prime right now a reason for the supposed current lack of Test quality?

Code:
[B]Pakistan	[/B]																					
151	Fazl-e-Akbar		South	Africa	v	Pakistan	at	Durban,		1997/98			
152	Mohammad	Yousuf	South	Africa	v	Pakistan	at	Durban,		1997/98		
153	Shahid	Afridi		Pakistan	v	Australia	at	Karachi,	1998/99			
154	Shakeel	Ahmed	snr	Pakistan	v	Australia	at	Karachi,	1998/99		
155	Naved	Ashraf		Pakistan	v	Zimbabwe	at	Lahore,		1998/99			
156	Wajahatullah	Wasti	India		v	Pakistan	at	Kolkata,	1998/99			
											
[B]NZ[/B]																						
205	PJ	Wiseman		Sri	Lanka	v	New	Zealand	at	Colombo	(RPS),	1998
206	MD	Bell		New	Zealand	v	India		at	Wellington,	1998/99		
											
[B]WI[/B]																				
222	RD	Jacobs		South	Africa	v	West	Indies	at	Johannesburg,		1998/99	
223	D	Ganga		South	Africa	v	West	Indies	at	Durban,			1998/99	
224	RD	King		South	Africa	v	West	Indies	at	Centurion,		1998/99	
225	PT	Collins		West	Indies	v	Australia	at	Port	of	Spain,	1998/99
226	DRE	Joseph		West	Indies	v	Australia	at	Port	of	Spain,	1998/99
227	S	Ragoonath	West	Indies	v	Australia	at	Port	of	Spain,	1998/99
228	NO	Perry		West	Indies	v	Australia	at	Kingston,		1998/99		
229	LA	Roberts		West	Indies	v	Australia	at	Kingston,		1998/99		
230	CD	Collymore	West	Indies	v	Australia	at	St	John's,		1998/99	
231	RL	Powell		New	Zealand	v	West	Indies	at	Hamilton,		1999/00	
											
											
[B]Aus[/B]																						
374	SCG	MacGill		Australia	v	South	Africa	at	Adelaide,		1997/98		
375	GR	Robertson	India		v	Australia	at	Chennai,		1997/98			
376	P	Wilson		India		v	Australia	at	Kolkata,		1997/98			
377	AC	Dale		India		v	Australia	at	Bangalore,		1997/98			
378	DS	Lehmann		India		v	Australia	at	Bangalore,		1997/98			
379	CR	Miller		Pakistan	v	Australia	at	Rawalpindi,		1998/99			
380	MJ	Nicholson	Australia	v	England		at	Melbourne,		1998/99			
381	AC	Gilchrist	Australia	v	Pakistan	at	Brisbane,		1999/00			
382	SA	Muller		Australia	v	Pakistan	at	Brisbane,		1999/00			
383	B	Lee		Australia	v	India		at	Melbourne,		1999/00			
											
[B]SA[/B]																						
268	HD	Ackerman	South	Africa	v	Pakistan	at	Durban,			1997/98		
269	M	Ntini		South	Africa	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Cape	Town,		1997/98
270	GFJ	Liebenberg	South	Africa	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Centurion,		1997/98	
271	S	Elworthy	England		v	South	Africa	at	Nottingham,		1998		
272	DJ	Terbrugge	South	Africa	v	West	Indies	at	Johannesburg,		1998/99	
273	HH	Dippenaar	South	Africa	v	Zimbabwe	at	Bloemfontein,		1999/00		
274	M	Hayward		South	Africa	v	England		at	Port	Elizabeth,	1999/00	
											
[B]India[/B]																						
214	Harvinder	Singh		India	v	Australia	at	Chennai,	1997/98			
215	Harbhajan	Singh		India	v	Australia	at	Bangalore,	1997/98			
216	AB	Agarkar			Zimbabwe	v	India	at	Harare,		1998/99			
217	RR	Singh			Zimbabwe	v	India	at	Harare,		1998/99			
218	R	Singh			New	Zealand	v	India	at	Hamilton,	1998/99		
219	S	Ramesh			India	v	Pakistan	at	Chennai,	1998/99			
220	A	Nehra			Sri	Lanka	v	India	at	Colombo	(SSC),	1998/99	
221	DJ	Gandhi			India	v	New	Zealand	at	Mohali,		1999/00		
222	MSK	Prasad			India	v	New	Zealand	at	Mohali,		1999/00		
223	R	Vijay	Bharadwaj	India	v	New	Zealand	at	Mohali,		1999/00	
224	HH	Kanitkar		Australia	v	India	at	Melbourne,	1999/00			
											
[B]Eng[/B]																						
589	SP	James		England		v	South	Africa	at	Lord's,	1998		
590	AF	Giles		England		v	South	Africa	at	Manchester,	1998		
591	A	Flintoff	England		v	South	Africa	at	Nottingham,	1998		
592	AJ	Tudor		Australia	v	England		at	Perth,		1998/99			
593	WK	Hegg		Australia	v	England		at	Melbourne,	1998/99			
594	A	Habib		England	v	New	Zealand		at	Birmingham,	1999		
595	CMW	Read		England	v	New	Zealand		at	Birmingham,	1999		
596	ESH	Giddins		England	v	New	Zealand		at	The	Oval,	1999	
597	DL	Maddy		England	v	New	Zealand		at	The	Oval,	1999	
598	CJ	Adams		South	Africa	v	England		at	Johannesburg,	1999/00		
599	GM	Hamilton	South	Africa	v	England		at	Johannesburg,	1999/00		
600	MP	Vaughan		South	Africa	v	England		at	Johannesburg,	1999/00	

[B]Sri Lanka[/B]
71	CM	Bandara		Sri	Lanka	v	New	Zealand	at	Colombo	(RPS),	1998
72	MRCN	Bandaratilleke	Sri	Lanka	v	New	Zealand	at	Colombo	(RPS),	1998
73	ASA	Perera		England		v	Sri	Lanka	at	The	Oval,	1998	
74	PDRL	Perera		Sri	Lanka	v	India		at	Colombo	(SSC),	1998/99	
75	KEA	Upashantha	Sri	Lanka	v	India		at	Colombo	(SSC),	1998/99	
76	DA	Gunawardene	Pakistan	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Lahore,		1998/99		
77	UDU	Chandana	Pakistan	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Dhaka,		1998/99		
78	HMRKB	Herath		Sri	Lanka	v	Australia	at	Galle,		1999		
79	SI	de	Saram	Zimbabwe	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Bulawayo,	1999/00	
80	TM	Dilshan		Zimbabwe	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Bulawayo,	1999/00		
81	IS	Gallage		Zimbabwe	v	Sri	Lanka	at	Bulawayo,	1999/00
 
Last edited:

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
That's tough to say. However, I'd like to know if 98/99 were unique in anyway - most players who make their debut don't go on to become stars. If each team brings one new player in every year, and he sticks around for long term, I think that's a pretty good year.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Several of those seem to conform to patterns familiar - India with a lot of seamers and openers for instance.

But the answer to the question is, I really don't know what it tells us. There are many players on there who I'd simply say never had any chance of success: Wiseman is a name who sticks-out. This, I'd not imagine, is particularly unusual - nothing players are picked for international cricket, it's a sad reality. Equally, players who looked good at the domestic level sometimes look extremely poor at the international level. Equally, there's always a few players who don't get a fair crack of the whip, for many reasons.

I'd go through those on a case-by-case basis, but really CBA. :p

Aside from anything else, the code makes deleting everything not relevant a laborious process. :blink:
 

Mister Wright

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Pretty funny that Lee was the 383 player for Australia almost 10 years ago and there is yet to be the 400 player for Australia.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Always thought Naved Ashraf was the PCB Chairman TBH. :confused:

These Urdu-English (non-)translations...
 

Jungle Jumbo

International Vice-Captain
Haha, I don't even know who Shakeel Ahmed snr, Robertson and Wilson are...

Yeah, there appears to be a lot of mediocre talent. Teams were more unsettled even 10 years ago however, with domestic performances counting for a lot more than they do now. There is probably as much a case for chance causing so many poor players to debut in the same year as anything. It would be interesting to compare it with other years though.

Interesting that those batch of England players were the last before central contracts. The amount of obviously poor players (hindsight being a great virtue) appears to have reduced almost immediately. Many of those players would never get anywhere near the international game these days.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Among SL players, TM Dilshan has become a star, among top five fieldsmen among current cricketers. Upul Chandana had a good career and retired from cricket. Bandara and Herath are in fringes, especially the latter is a good performer in FCC. Murali has blocked most of their chances playing for SL and Jayasuriya as the 2nd spinner makes their chances near zero. Since Jaya has retired, now the stage os open for a second spinner.

Avishka Gunawardane - hit or miss fellow. Had some success, but too loose against good fast bowlers

Indika de Saram - has matured in a big way and now threatening for a comeback to seize Chamara Silva's place in the side

Niroshan Banaratillake - Had a lot of disciplinary problems and it started telling on his game. Possessed one of the best arm balls I have seen from a finger spinner.

Indika Gallage - perceived as "too slow" to open bowling (around 75mph). But selectors were ****ed up so badly that they forgot that this bloke can move the ball of the pitch both ways some times one and half feet! He looked like a quick spinner when in full flow. Still bowls very well in FCC, since age has got better of him, now he's really slow.

Eric Upashantha - This guy could bowl banana swingers. But his control was not the best. Now retired and works as a coach

Suresh Perera - thought as the next big thing od SL cricket. A lively out swing bowler and a sweet hitter. His action was dodgy and the remedial work did not sort the problem. Plays FCC as a lower order batsman now.

Ruchira Perera - Quick left arm seamer, but he chucks. Has absolutely no chance of a comeback.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Interestingly, a whole stack of openers in that list, and not one who has actually made something of himself at test level, unless you consider Michael Vaughan an opener. Bell, Ganga, Ramesh, Dippenaar amongst others.
 

Beleg

International Regular
it would be interesting to compare this with 89/90 and 90/91.

of the top of my mind, for pakistan alone,


Pakistan

Inzy
Saeed
Waqar
Mushtaq
Sohail
Aaqib Javed
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Haha, I don't even know who Shakeel Ahmed snr, Robertson and Wilson are...
It's best that way. Only Paul Wilson was a bowler of much note, and even he wasn't as good as I'd thought until 6 months ago or so.
Interesting that those batch of England players were the last before central contracts. The amount of obviously poor players (hindsight being a great virtue) appears to have reduced almost immediately. Many of those players would never get anywhere near the international game these days.
Umm, Chris Schofield, Usman Afzaal, James Ormond, Richard Dawson, Stephen Harmison, Anthony McGrath, Kabir Ali, Gareth Batty, Geraint Jones, Liam Plunkett, Ian Blackwell, Sajid Mahmood, Matthew Prior, Ravinder Bopara (to date)? Heck, Stuart Broad so far. Those cases not bear any similarity? :mellow:
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Among SL players, TM Dilshan has become a star, among top five fieldsmen among current cricketers. Upul Chandana had a good career and retired from cricket. Bandara and Herath are in fringes, especially the latter is a good performer in FCC. Murali has blocked most of their chances playing for SL and Jayasuriya as the 2nd spinner makes their chances near zero. Since Jaya has retired, now the stage os open for a second spinner.

Avishka Gunawardane - hit or miss fellow. Had some success, but too loose against good fast bowlers

Indika de Saram - has matured in a big way and now threatening for a comeback to seize Chamara Silva's place in the side

Niroshan Banaratillake - Had a lot of disciplinary problems and it started telling on his game. Possessed one of the best arm balls I have seen from a finger spinner.

Indika Gallage - perceived as "too slow" to open bowling (around 75mph). But selectors were ****ed up so badly that they forgot that this bloke can move the ball of the pitch both ways some times one and half feet! He looked like a quick spinner when in full flow. Still bowls very well in FCC, since age has got better of him, now he's really slow.

Eric Upashantha - This guy could bowl banana swingers. But his control was not the best. Now retired and works as a coach

Suresh Perera - thought as the next big thing od SL cricket. A lively out swing bowler and a sweet hitter. His action was dodgy and the remedial work did not sort the problem. Plays FCC as a lower order batsman now.

Ruchira Perera - Quick left arm seamer, but he chucks. Has absolutely no chance of a comeback.
Interesting stuff there, particularly sad to hear about Niroshan (CBA spelling his surname :wacko:), who I thought looked quite good on the odd occasion I saw him. Never knew where Suresh Perera had disappeared to either. Ruchira only ever appeared to be a chucker once out of the 7 or 8 times I saw him - you reckon he chucks all the time?

Interesting too to hear about de Saram. One of the worst batsmen I'd ever seen until recently, would be interesting to see how much difference there was should he return to international level.
 

gettingbetter

State Vice-Captain
It's best that way. Only Paul Wilson was a bowler of much note, and even he wasn't as good as I'd thought until 6 months ago or so.

Umm, Chris Schofield, Usman Afzaal, James Ormond, Richard Dawson, Stephen Harmison, Anthony McGrath, Kabir Ali, Gareth Batty, Geraint Jones, Liam Plunkett, Ian Blackwell, Sajid Mahmood, Matthew Prior, Ravinder Bopara (to date)? Heck, Stuart Broad so far. Those cases not bear any similarity? :mellow:
Bit unfair to some in that list Rich. But I think what the other poster is saying is that the likes of those CC incumbents who average no more than 35 would be selected in the team - from the top of my head, Lathwell, Maynard, the Hollioakes, and co.

With the names you mentioned, there is probably a good argument that can be made why most of those players were selected, probably not so much for the guys who have played less than 5 Tests though.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
OK, I'll have a fair crack at reasons why the whole lot of them should never have been picked:
Chris Schofield - never a bowler of any note, just a wristspinner and the geniu selectors decided that even though he'd never bowled that well it was a good idea to fling him into a Test... because Mike Gatting said he looked good. :mellow:
Usman Afzaal - picked for Tests because of domestic form... in one-day cricket. :mellow:
James Ormond - never really worked-out why he was picked, was patently not hard-working enough.
Richard Dawson - picked after 1 season in domestic cricket... in which he averaged 36. :mellow: One of the worst selections ever, especially as a fingerspinner.
Stephen Harmison - had never bowled anything like well when picked, and rarely has in a LOOONG Test career either.
Anthony McGrath - basically picked as a replacement for Andrew Flintoff, who he bears virtually no resemblence to. An odd, odd selection.
Kabir Ali - not the worst as selections go, but hasn't exactly distinguished himself and has never looked anything other than vulnerable.
Gareth Batty - a bit better than Dawson, and can bat too, and had at least had a couple of seasons of decent (not outstanding) domestic performance. But not a patch on the superior spinner around, Robert Croft.
Geraint Jones - picked because of 1 season, after Alec Stewart had been hounded into retirement (because the press wanted Chris Read :mellow:) then usurped Read, did well at first but never cured the "lack of a batting brain" malaise.
Liam Plunkett - never done anything of real note in any form of senior-level cricket. Woeful selection.
Ian Blackwell - probably an even worse bowler than Batty or Dawson, but like Batty can bat to a small extent (don't be fooled by his First-Class batting average, he's nowhere near that good), but should never, ever have got anywhere near Test-cricket, and basically seemed to have been picked on ODI form, always an awful idea.
Sajid Mahmood - picked at a time there were possibly 5 or even 6 better bowlers at his own county.
Matthew Prior - a bit of a Blackwell-esque batsman at domestic level, though clearly technically superior. But if his wicketkeeping has been as awful at domestic level as it has so far in Tests, well, anyone who knew that and picked him deserves to be shot.
Ravinder Bopara - picked ahead of someone who seemingly cannot do anything right with anyone in England-selector roles, Owais Shah. Absolute madness.
Stuart Broad - basically picked because he's tall, not because he's got any great gift with swing and seam, nor bowling lines and lengths, nor any particularly remarkable pace. And ahead of Chris Tremlett, who'd started his Test career decently. As with Bopara, absolutely ridiculous that he got ahead of someone else.

So, well, yes, I'd say it is fair. Every bit as fair as criticising the selections of the Adamses, Maddys, Reads (in 1999, not 2003), Giddinses, Heggs, Flintoffs (in 1998, not 2001\02), Hollioakes, et al.

Note, I've no problem at all with Hamilton, Vaughan, Habib, Tudor, Giles and James being picked. All deserved a go, and in some cases didn't get it.
 

Jungle Jumbo

International Vice-Captain
It's best that way. Only Paul Wilson was a bowler of much note, and even he wasn't as good as I'd thought until 6 months ago or so.

Umm, Chris Schofield, Usman Afzaal, James Ormond, Richard Dawson, Stephen Harmison, Anthony McGrath, Kabir Ali, Gareth Batty, Geraint Jones, Liam Plunkett, Ian Blackwell, Sajid Mahmood, Matthew Prior, Ravinder Bopara (to date)? Heck, Stuart Broad so far. Those cases not bear any similarity? :mellow:
Of them, I'd only put Afzaal, Ormond, Dawson, Kabir, Blackwell down as truly appalling, the sort that could have walked straight out of the nineties. There are fewer and fewer being selected though.

The others you will contest, but they'd have looked like superstars compared to some of that nineties lot. At least now the players selected appear to have some merit, then get found out; rather than no merit and then being found out. Also bearing in mind that's 7 years' worth of players.
 

gettingbetter

State Vice-Captain
You seem to be ignoring the pool of quality that England seems to be lacking. The spinners were selected for obvious reasons and the bowlers, especially post 2005 have been picked to fill a void.

I think you are really nit-picking with Harmison, Kabir, Prior and Read, so other than Ormond and McGrath, and possibly one or two more, the list doesn't warrant as much criticism as you dish out.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Gavin Robertson, IIRC, wasn't actually playing regularly for NSW when he got picked for that tour of India. Paul Wilson played a Test in a dead rubber vs India where Australia had a few injuries - from memory, I think it might've been the match when Kaspa got 7 wickets in an innings.
 

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