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Was Healy the last great wicket keeper ?

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Bob Simpson seems to suggest that this might well be the case.

Modern day wicketkeepers stand too deep and cover little distance on the off and leg. All of them dive or rather sprawl instead of getting into position swiftly with quick feet and body movement. Wicketkeepers standing too far back also make it difficult to set up the slip cordon properly.

Much of the wicket-keeping problems today stem from the ’keepers’ desire to take the ball on the drop below their knees. Great wicketkeepers of the past always took the ball about waist high on the rise.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is not a wicketkeeper in Test cricket today who can be termed truly great, and the question remains, will Ian Healy be the last of the great wicketkeepers?

Unfortunately, this is because of the modern trend of having a batsman-wicketkeeper rather than a genuine gloveman. In theory, it sounds okay. If you have someone like Adam Gilchrist, who averages 48.66 in Tests, it may be okay — just may be. The reality, however, is that a ’keeper selected mainly for his batting skills rather than ’keeping expertise will drop a lot of catches — and catches win matches.

The Australian spinners of the Lillee-Marsh era claim that they would have got many more wickets than they actually did if their wicketkeeper, who was brilliant against the fast bowlers, had performed better while ’keeping to them. England in particular have suffered due to wicketkeepers who were chosen because the selectors thought they could score more runs than their counterparts who might claim more dismissals, but were less proficient as batsmen.

Matt Prior had a disastrous season behind the stumps and his predecessor Geraint Jones was equally disappointing — neither of them scored enough runs to make up for the chances they missed behind.

India’s Mahendra Singh Dhoni had a good series with the bat and is probably good enough to hold his place in the team with his batting alone. But he has been disappointing behind the stumps, and I would be surprised if someone tells me that there are no better wicketkeepers in India. Where are the Kirmanis of Indian cricket? Where are the Alan Knotts and the Wally Grouts? Cricket is poorer for their absence.​
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
The interesting thing about it all is the fact that IMO Darren Berry was a better keeper then Ian Healy. But Healy kept his spot ahead of due to being a better batsmen. Obviously his keeping was excellent as well, but if they picked the better keeper they would have gone for Berry.

Also the intial factor that allowed Healy to cement a spot in the side, was the fact that he was a better batsmen then most of his counterparts at the time. Picking a keeping a keeper for his batting is nothing new, its just that in the past it wasn't main criteria. In reality to success that keeper like Knott, Marsh and Healy were having with the bat, started this trend. Its just that Gilchirst, Stewart, Sangakkara and Flower took it to another level.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Maybe he is, but the argument is flawed IMO. Gilchrist is a very good wicketkeeper and what he lacks as a glovesman, in comparison to someone like Healy, he more than makes up for in his batting. Catches win matches, and Gilchrist catches almost as many as Healy, but so does batting, to which pure glovesmen like Healy don't come near to Gilchrist.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
The problem is, as others have pointed out, Gilchrist, Sanga and I suppose Flower, were pretty damn special in that they were/are quality with the bat AND with the gloves. That success has sparked a search for similar players that is proving pretty fruitless to date. I suspect that in ten years time we'll look back at the coincidence of these three brilliant batsman/keeper allrounders as being as unusual as the conjunction of Imran/Botham/Kapil/Hadlee's careers as conventional allrounders. And the fact is we'll probably revert more to Knott/Healy level of "allround" talent, in the way that we've regressed with allrounders to the Kallis', Pollocks and Flintoffs of the world - definitely better at one discipline than the other and not quite good enough to demand a spot with their second discipline.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
The problem is, as others have pointed out, Gilchrist, Sanga and I suppose Flower, were pretty damn special in that they were/are quality with the bat AND with the gloves. That success has sparked a search for similar players that is proving pretty fruitless to date. I suspect that in ten years time we'll look back at the coincidence of these three brilliant batsman/keeper allrounders as being as unusual as the conjunction of Imran/Botham/Kapil/Hadlee's careers as conventional allrounders. And the fact is we'll probably revert more to Knott/Healy level of "allround" talent, in the way that we've regressed with allrounders to the Kallis', Pollocks and Flintoffs of the world - definitely better at one discipline than the other and not quite good enough to demand a spot with their second discipline.
Flower was never that impressive with the gloves at all TBH. He certainly wasn't what you'd call a natural wicket keeper.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
That's why I said "I suppose" - no question he was great with the bat, but his keeping wasn't as good as Gilly or Sangga - makes him the Richard Hadlee of this group...
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
You could toss Stewart in there as well as part of the conjunction of abnormally good keeper/batsmen...
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
That's why I said "I suppose" - no question he was great with the bat, but his keeping wasn't as good as Gilly or Sangga - makes him the Richard Hadlee of this group...
To be honest I wouldn't rate Flower's keeping higher than Kallis's bowling. Although it is indeed a strange comparison that no-one could ever really argue either way, so I won't pursue it. :p
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
You need to bat at #7. Period. You can't afford a weak link there, but you also can't afford a Dhoni-esque or Prior-esque keeper either. Gilchrist is a great wicketkeeper, as wicket keeping today includes batting and IMO he is the 'ideal' of what teams need. Barring that, I'd take someone averaging around 28 but takes every catch over someone who averages 40 and bats like Dhoni. Just one extra catch or a couple of saved byes will more than make up the difference.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
To be honest I wouldn't rate Flower's keeping higher than Kallis's bowling. Although it is indeed a strange comparison that no-one could ever really argue either way, so I won't pursue it. :p
Would you rate Flower's keeping as equal to or better than Hadlee's batting? :)
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
The problem with all this is it kinda asumes the keepers that are not batsmen dont make mistakes.

Whilst there is a definate difference in ability in many cases the batsmen/keepers are generally judged by a far harsher standards.

The supposed 'pure' keepers all made mistakes but are generally not as harshly criticised.

Sure the Priors and Akmals of the world have been poor recently but one of the worst tours by a keeper Ive seen was by the 'legendary' Jack Russell in the West Indies and I seem to recall Healy costing Aus a test match in Pakistan with a fluffed chance and Dujon could often be sloppy.

I dont disagree that there are better keepers out there than those that are often chosen, but I do think their mistakes are more aggressively picked up on.[/.
 
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The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
This isn't a new phenomenon, TBH - as Matt has noted, the likes of Gilly, Sangakarra and Flower may taken the batsman-keeper combination to a new level, but you can go back years and it's been happening to some degree. Chaminda pointed out that not everyone thought Heals was the best gloveman in the country when he got the job for the Test side. A few years before that Wayne Phillips was the Test keeper, when many of us considered that Ray Phillips (no relation) was a far better keeper and that Wayne was only chosen over him for his far superior batting ability.

Going back to the early 1970s and a bloke named Rod Marsh got the nod as Australia's Test keeper despite almost unanimous opinion that Brian Taber, who was the incumbent at the time, was far superior behind the stumps, and that Irongloves (the nickname says it all!) was selected purely due to being a better batsman.

It's not just Australia. In England, it seems widely acknowledged that Jack Russell would have played many more times for England had he scored more runs. And as great as even Alan Knott was as a keeper, there are I believe plenty of Englishmen who think Bob Taylor would have won a lot more Test caps - or at least broken into the Test side earlier - if he was a better batsman.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
The problem with all this is it kinda asumes the keepers that are not batsmen dont make mistakes.

Whilst there is a definate difference in ability in many cases the batsmen/keepers are generally judged by a far harsher standards.

The supposed 'pure' keepers all made mistakes but are generally not as harshly criticised.

Sure the Priors and Akmals of the world have been poor recently but one of the worst tours by a keeper Ive seen was by the 'legendary' Jack Russell in the West Indies and I seem to recall Healy costing Aus a test match in Pakistan with a fluffed chance and Dujon could often be sloppy.

I dont disagree that there are better keepers out there than those that are often chosen, but I do think their mistakes are more aggressively picked up on.
Absolutely.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Would you rate Flower's keeping as equal to or better than Hadlee's batting? :)
I never saw enough of Hadlee's batting to really make a good judgement of that, but based on stats and reputation, I'd probably rate it slightly below Flower's keeping, so I see your point.

My argument was more in response to your comment regarding Flintoff, Kallis and Pollock being very good at one discipline but just handy at the other as opposed to say Imran, and the mirroring group of wicket keeper-batsmen. I think Flower fits in better with the Kallis/Pollock group, rather than the Botham/Imran group of players who were right up there with the best in the world in each discipline at one stage or another in their careers. As I said, I haven't seen a lot of Hadlee's batting, but I'd be tempted to put him with the Kallis/Pollock types as well based on stats and reputation. Probably best saved for another thread though.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
I never saw enough of Hadlee's batting to really make a good judgement of that, but based on stats and reputation, I'd probably rate it slightly below Flower's keeping, so I see your point.

My argument was more in response to your comment regarding Flintoff, Kallis and Pollock being very good at one discipline but just handy at the other as opposed to say Imran, and the mirroring group of wicket keeper-batsmen. I think Flower fits in better with the Kallis/Pollock group, rather than the Botham/Imran group of players who were right up there with the best in the world in each discipline at one stage or another in their careers. As I said, I haven't seen a lot of Hadlee's batting, but I'd be tempted to put him with the Kallis/Pollock types as well based on stats and reputation. Probably best saved for another thread though.
I for one would be interested in reading - and probably contributing - to that thread. :)
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
The problem with all this is it kinda asumes the keepers that are not batsmen dont make mistakes.

Whilst there is a definate difference in ability in many cases the batsmen/keepers are generally judged by a far harsher standards.

The supposed 'pure' keepers all made mistakes but are generally not as harshly criticised.

Sure the Priors and Akmals of the world have been poor recently but one of the worst tours by a keeper Ive seen was by the 'legendary' Jack Russell in the West Indies and I seem to recall Healy costing Aus a test match in Pakistan with a fluffed chance and Dujon could often be sloppy.

I dont disagree that there are better keepers out there than those that are often chosen, but I do think their mistakes are more aggressively picked up on.
Agreed 100%. Maybe guys like Healy were better than batting-keepers like Gilchrist. But damn, it's not really so much of a difference, in terms of their glove-work and it's not like Knott or Healy never dropped catches.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Bob Simpson seems to suggest that this might well be the case.

Modern day wicketkeepers stand too deep and cover little distance on the off and leg. All of them dive or rather sprawl instead of getting into position swiftly with quick feet and body movement. Wicketkeepers standing too far back also make it difficult to set up the slip cordon properly.

Much of the wicket-keeping problems today stem from the ’keepers’ desire to take the ball on the drop below their knees. Great wicketkeepers of the past always took the ball about waist high on the rise.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is not a wicketkeeper in Test cricket today who can be termed truly great, and the question remains, will Ian Healy be the last of the great wicketkeepers?

Unfortunately, this is because of the modern trend of having a batsman-wicketkeeper rather than a genuine gloveman. In theory, it sounds okay. If you have someone like Adam Gilchrist, who averages 48.66 in Tests, it may be okay — just may be. The reality, however, is that a ’keeper selected mainly for his batting skills rather than ’keeping expertise will drop a lot of catches — and catches win matches.

The Australian spinners of the Lillee-Marsh era claim that they would have got many more wickets than they actually did if their wicketkeeper, who was brilliant against the fast bowlers, had performed better while ’keeping to them. England in particular have suffered due to wicketkeepers who were chosen because the selectors thought they could score more runs than their counterparts who might claim more dismissals, but were less proficient as batsmen.

Matt Prior had a disastrous season behind the stumps and his predecessor Geraint Jones was equally disappointing — neither of them scored enough runs to make up for the chances they missed behind.

India’s Mahendra Singh Dhoni had a good series with the bat and is probably good enough to hold his place in the team with his batting alone. But he has been disappointing behind the stumps, and I would be surprised if someone tells me that there are no better wicketkeepers in India. Where are the Kirmanis of Indian cricket? Where are the Alan Knotts and the Wally Grouts? Cricket is poorer for their absence.​
Best to reference articles posted.
 

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