Was Healy the last great wicket keeper ?

[Richard]

I'd wager every single wicket-keeper ever would disagree with you regarding the difficulty of keeping to a bowler who spins it as much as MacGill.

So in other words, it's not about how good, it's about how much spin.

You say for starters, so I hope the rest of your arguments are better, because that's one of the poorest arguments I've ever seen you, or any other non-troll, advance.

So having to face someone for 34 overs is more difficult than for 10?

Other reasons it's easier in ODIs pertain to things like leg-side wide rules, different ways batsmen are going to bat, and different ways bowlers are going to bowl.

 

[Matt79]

So in other words, it's not about how good, it's about how much spin.

For a keeper the spin would be one of the killers. Its different from facing a bowler as a batsman - MacGill's occasional inaccuracy would actually be a killer for the keepers. The spin is only one factor, but for someone keeping to MacGill its a big factor whereas for someone keeping to a Boje or a Giles, its one significant issue less to deal with. Therefore - big spinners are in general harder to keep to.

So having to face someone for 34 overs is more difficult than for 10?

Other reasons it's easier in ODIs pertain to things like leg-side wide rules, different ways batsmen are going to bat, and different ways bowlers are going to bowl

Ok, I concede that the fatigue factor could play a part, although a ten over spell is well and truly enough time for a spinner like Hogg to "work" a keeper over. The restrictions of legside lines woould also help - that's not one of the worst arguments ever.

 

[Richard]

For a keeper the spin would be one of the killers. Its different from facing a bowler as a batsman - MacGill's occasional inaccuracy would actually be a killer for the keepers. The spin is only one factor, but for someone keeping to MacGill its a big factor whereas for someone keeping to a Boje or a Giles, its one significant issue less to deal with. Therefore - big spinners are in general harder to keep to.

Don't disagree with a word. Nothing I said, TBH, had anything to do with saying "Boucher's as good as \ better than Gilchrist". Purely that Gilchrist had kept to 1, and only 1, truly excellent spinner in his career.

I wouldn't have taken any umbridge to Sameer's original statement if I had been talking about wicketkeepers.

 

[Matt79]

I honestly don't think keeping to MacGill is that much of a challenge.

So this comment meant what then?

 

[Richard]

A misnomer.

Don't have a clue why I said it TBH.

 

[Matt79]

Jeez, I'm framing that post!

 

[Matt79]

A misnomer.

Don't have a clue why I said it TBH.

Although is it actually a misnomer?

 

[Richard]

Yeah, it's based on similarity. It's also part of an older chain of posts which I retained despite newer information coming to light.

 

[quick4mindia]

I for one would be interested in reading - and probably contributing - to that thread.

I never saw enough of Hadlee's batting to really make a good judgement of that, but based on stats and reputation, I'd probably rate it slightly below Flower's keeping, so I see your point.

My argument was more in response to your comment regarding Flintoff, Kallis and Pollock being very good at one discipline but just handy at the other as opposed to say Imran, and the mirroring group of wicket keeper-batsmen. I think Flower fits in better with the Kallis/Pollock group, rather than the Botham/Imran group of players who were right up there with the best in the world in each discipline at one stage or another in their careers. As I said, I haven't seen a lot of Hadlee's batting, but I'd be tempted to put him with the Kallis/Pollock types as well based on stats and reputation. Probably best saved for another thread though.

Well Imran yes.....Botham was a good bowler and a handy batsman..and overrated in Engalnd IMHO

 

[Richard]

 

[bond21]

wow keeping for giles....keeping for kumble....i thought spinners spun the ball.

gilchrist and healy kept to warne, greatest spin bowler ever. MacGill is probably the most unlucky dude in Australian cricket. If he was in a different era than Warne, he would most likely have played his whole career for the national side. His average and strike rate is actually better than shane warne's at certain grounds in australia.

 

[SJS]

One of the toughest bowlers to keep to EVER has to be Murali. Wonder why no Sri Lankan keepers ever enter a debate for the best gloveman ?

 

[funnygirl]

Kumar Sangakkara is a great wicket keeper in my opinion.

 

[Matt79]

One of the toughest bowlers to keep to EVER has to be Murali. Wonder why no Sri Lankan keepers ever enter a debate for the best gloveman ?

Fair point - that's why I rate Sangakkara above Flower as a keeper-batsman.

 

[bond21]

Sangakarra is certainly the 2nd best wicket keeper batsman in the world. He is a class keeper.

But geez england picks batsman who can keep basically.

Geraint Jones was a shocker, he was an alright batsman but he was terrible behind the stumps. giles and panesar shouldnt bother trying to get edges cause jones just drops them like hotcakes.

theyve been through 3 keepers in about 12 months, jones, that moron nixon now some other guy.

 

[Perm]

Sangakarra is certainly the 2nd best wicket keeper batsman in the world. He is a class keeper.

But geez england picks batsman who can keep basically.

Geraint Jones was a shocker, he was an alright batsman but he was terrible behind the stumps. giles and panesar shouldnt bother trying to get edges cause jones just drops them like hotcakes.

theyve been through 3 keepers in about 12 months, jones, that moron nixon now some other guy.

Haha, you pay a lot of attention don't you?

 

[Ikki]

One of the toughest bowlers to keep to EVER has to be Murali. Wonder why no Sri Lankan keepers ever enter a debate for the best gloveman ?

I don't rate Sangakkara that high for 2 reasons:

1) His average when he actually keeps is only 42.

2) His record is inflated quite a bit by his efforts against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

 

[Anil]

I wouldn't have taken any umbridge to Sameer's original statement if I had been talking about wicketkeepers.

of the dolores variety?

 

[SJS]

But geez england picks batsman who can keep basically.

You mean 'who CANT keep basically'

 

[Richard]

of the dolores variety?

Haha, well found.