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# 6 for 1966-85 World XI
- Thread starter aussie tragic
- Start date
JBH001
International Regular
Actually, Botham was probably the better allrounder than Imran in this era. His batting was clearly better during the period, his bowling was at least as good as Imran's if not better up until 1982, after which Imran's bowling superseded Botham's - and Botham's fielding was much better during the period concerned, and perhaps after as well.BhupinderSingh said:
Botham's record is forever marred by the dramatic deterioration in his performance (except perhaps fielding) post 1985. But up until 1985 he had one of the greatest records ever - and his peak of 1977 - 1982 was (perhaps with the exception of Sobers' peak 1962 - 1967) in all likelihood the greatest cricketing peak by an all-rounder ever.
Coming back to Sobers and voting for another batsman - I don't see why people don't seem to grasp the fact that Sobers is playing as a batsman! Not as an all-rounder. He will be called upon to bowl if necessary (as Viv might) but the other bowlers should easily be able to do the job. Sobers at #6 is not in the same class as a bowler as other specialist all-rounders of different periods (Imran, Miller, Gregory etc). Therefore playing him would leave you with 4 specialist bowlers - imo, not enough in a best of the best team, and not when playing against other best of the best teams.
(in any case if you were going to pick another batsman, AB clearly has more going for him than Miandad....)
aussie tragic
International Captain
Excellent post JBH. Please note the stats of the 1977-82 "purple patch" period you mention above (from Aug-77 to Sep-82).JBH001 said:
Ian Botham: 54 Tests, 2996 runs @ 37.92 ---- 249 wkts @ 23.32
Simply outstanding and this is why I remember him as the # 1 allrounder of the period (of course Imran crept ahead overall due to Botham's decline and Imran became exceptional once he was captain)
EDIT: Everyone should be aware of the stupid decision to make Botham captain in 1980-81 (as if he didn't have enough to do), which pretty much sucked any good performance out him. Here are his 77-82 stats with the 12 tests as captain removed.
Ian Botham: 42 tests, 2720 runs @ 46.89 --- 214 wkts @ 21.72
Now that could probably be considered the best allrounder performance ever IMO.
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Aussie Tragic -O agree. From 1977-85 beefy was the best all-rounder. He went into decline after '85 but in this period he was the best. As for Mr Greig yes its partly because of Botham but he's not liked for other reasons - the most stupid remark in the history of cricket - the "grovel" statement - way to go Greigy give Viv Richards and the Windies fast bowlers extra motivation!!. As Dean Jones knows these days those remarks get you sacked - as Greig should have been. Might have changed history though - would Packer have wanted to sign a sacked England captain (and that's the reason other people dislike him but for me its the grovel remark). PS - who will Tony support in the Ashes? Easy. Whoever's winning!
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
aussie tragic said:
Imran Khan: 1982 - 1991
51 matches, 204 wickets @ 19.90
51 matches @ 51.60
Sorry, that is the greatest peak of an all rounder in history.
pietersenrocks
U19 Vice-Captain
I have voted for Javed Miandad.
pietersenrocks
U19 Vice-Captain
Javed Miandad has the highest average.
aussie tragic
International Captain
Good call and I had no idea that he was that good for so long (wow!). However, this is why he was selected in the 1986-2005 team and during this period in question, I consider Botham to be better.silentstriker said:
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JBH001
International Regular
Disagree.silentstriker said:
Maybe equal to Both's but not better.
1. 51 Tests in 10 years?
2. 4 wkts/test match is good but not great.
3. High avg inflated (a la S Waugh) by a large number of not outs.
It is a great peak, comparable to Botham's - but better? Doubt it.
Back to exam study - got 3 this week!
bagapath
International Captain
well said. remember the imran vs botham thread a couple of months ago? my argument was along the same lines. i am not able to accept botham as a clear second to imran. both were equally fantastic at different times. i prefer botham and i respect someone choosing imran as well.JBH001 said:
adharcric
International Coach
Is no one listening? I've said it before and I'll say it again. Sobers would be a good fifth bowler in a regular side, but not in an all-time side. Having him as the lone fifth bowler weakens the bowling attack. That said, this team has Knott instead of Gilchrist at #7 so it might need the extra batsman. How good was Knott with the bat?R_D said:
bagapath
International Captain
pretty good. his wicket had to be earned. used to get his runs more from common sense and team spirit. great bloke to have in the team. will be an ideal foil for late order batsmen like sobers and the all-rounder botham. infact, knott and (hopefully at 8) hadlee will be invaluable assets in this team.adharcric said:
Well he averaged 32 and got centuries of better bowling than Gilchrist (the Lillee/Thomson Australians, the Holding/Roberts WI in the grovel series). He also got runs against the Bedi/Chandra/Venkat spin attack and tended to get runs when we were in trouble - like Trent Bridge '77 when he came in at 82-5 with only Botham(on his debut) and three tail-enders to come - and got 135 - or his 73 NO that won us our last series in WI until 2004. I think that has answered this - and as a 'keeper he's in a different calss to Gilchrist.adharcric said: