wasim akram vs glenn mcgrath

[Swervy]

??????? Oh so out now
good

???? multiplied by two..I really don't understand what you are trying to say

 

[FRAZ]

???? multiplied by two..I really don't understand what you are trying to say

Yeah you wont and you wont even pick Wasim as an opening bowler either ????? right . I just know one thing that if a doubt is in one's mind about some one's wrong doing then that thing does not get out of the head. I want to know about the proven accusations please ... I multiplied the ???????? because I want the conversion of the accusation as a fact .Because accusation does not prove any thing and if cannot then getting it out of the head is a much better option ..

 

[grecian]

Is the really any point in a thread like this? They are both incredible players, it's just like the whole Lara V Tendulker thing, utterly pointless, both are legends and you'd kill to have either in your team.

Quite.

 

[gunner]

well has mcgrath hit a century?

or even a double century?

 

[Hugh]

Champ check my list initialy Mcgrath is a top bowler on my list for just a few reasons and Wasimn is like 4th or 5th in my list . Knocking off the tail or bit harsh is not the case here . Case is of accusations and the little itsi bitsis which are not going out of the "head" . I want a clarification for those things . Appreciating a legend is good but accusing Wasim of doing this and that is a foul too . And "head and accusation" now this thing is not getting out of my head.

It is definitely an accusation, but not a baseless one. Wasim had more variety, and he is rightly a great. However at the risk of sounding stupid, it must be said: Its not the size of the tool, its how you use it.

Glenn McGrath in Tests - breakdown of wickets based on batting order
Wasim Akram in Tests - breakdown of wickets based on batting order

Glenn McGrath in ODIs - breakdown of wickets based on batting order
Wasim Akram in ODIs - breakdown of wickets based on batting order

As I said, the difference is quite considerable in Test cricket. 40% top order wickets for McGrath compared to 31% for Wasim. That is loosely analogous to McGrath picking up 4 top order wickets in an innings while Wasim picks up 3.
Quite a handy tool, that.

 

[Hugh]

Thats right...when I said Akram was great at wiping away the tail, that didnt mean he could destroy the top order as well...but the facts are that a higher proportion of McGraths wickets were of higher calibre batsmen

Akram: http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerWicketAnalysisGraph.asp?PlayerID=0029

McGrath: http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerWicketAnalysisGraph.asp?PlayerID=1133

Ah crap! What were the chances ? All that work..

 

[UncleTheOne]

well has mcgrath hit a century?

or even a double century?

You can hardly use that as an arguement, Jason Gillespie has a test match double century. Would you pick him over Mcgrath? Anyway I thought you were only comparing them as bowlers.

 

[FRAZ]

It is definitely an accusation, but not a baseless one. Wasim had more variety, and he is rightly a great. However at the risk of sounding stupid, it must be said: Its not the size of the tool, its how you use it.

Glenn McGrath in Tests - breakdown of wickets based on batting order
Wasim Akram in Tests - breakdown of wickets based on batting order

Glenn McGrath in ODIs - breakdown of wickets based on batting order
Wasim Akram in ODIs - breakdown of wickets based on batting order

As I said, the difference is quite considerable in Test cricket. 40% top order wickets for McGrath compared to 31% for Wasim. That is loosely analogous to McGrath picking up 4 top order wickets in an innings while Wasim picks up 3.
Quite a handy tool, that.

First of all not a big deal difrference . 2ndly the break up of the wickets . Share of the prey .. Who were the partners of Mcgrath please ?????????????
One legend Waqar bowling at the other end taking half of the share of the wickets that Wasim could have taken .I highly admire Wasim now after looking at your stats . Waoh Wasim you did a better job because you had another predetor called Waqar to share your victums.... My respect for Wasim has increased a little more after reading those stats . What if Wasim was due to take the other opener who Waqar already yorked . How am I supposed to call that batsman to come out to play agian so that Wasim's stats improve a bit as an opening bowler.

 

[Hugh]

First of all not a big deal difrference . 2ndly the break up of the wickets . Share of the prey .. Who were the partners of Mcgrath please ?????????????
One legend Waqar bowling at the other end taking half of the share of the wickets that Wasim could have taken .I highly admire Wasim now after looking at your stats . Waoh Wasim you did a better job because you had another predetor called Waqar to share your victums.... My respect for Wasim has increased a little more after reading those stats . What if Wasim was due to take the other opener who Waqar already yorked . How am I supposed to call that batsman to come out to play agian so that Wasim's stats improve a bit as an opening bowler.

Strange how that argument comes to the fore after your denial of Wasims top order percentage being lower. Shouldn't it have come before, with the acceptance of that ?

 

[Hugh]

First of all not a big deal difrference . 2ndly the break up of the wickets . Share of the prey .. Who were the partners of Mcgrath please ?????????????
One legend Waqar bowling at the other end taking half of the share of the wickets that Wasim could have taken .I highly admire Wasim now after looking at your stats . Waoh Wasim you did a better job because you had another predetor called Waqar to share your victums.... My respect for Wasim has increased a little more after reading those stats . What if Wasim was due to take the other opener who Waqar already yorked . How am I supposed to call that batsman to come out to play agian so that Wasim's stats improve a bit as an opening bowler.

Argument 2: Waqar stole away top order wickets from Wasim, thereby leading to Wasim's top order wicket percentage ending up lower than McGrath's.

So, what should logically follow is that McGrath having a large top order wicket percentage should lead to his partner having a much lower percentage of top order wickets, right ?

Well, well, well.

Waqar Younis: 35.4%
http://howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerWicketAnalysisGraph.asp?PlayerID=1959

Jason Gillespie: 37.5%
http://howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerWicketAnalysisGraph.asp?PlayerID=2082

So, according to you, Waqar picks up many top order wickets, thereby leading to Wasim being deprived.

Strangely, Gillespie does marginally better than Waqar as far as top order wickets go, but he doesnt stop McGrath from notching up 40% ...

 

[FRAZ]

Argument 2: Waqar stole away top order wickets from Wasim, thereby leading to Wasim's top order wicket percentage ending up lower than McGrath's.

So, what should logically follow is that McGrath having a large top order wicket percentage should lead to his partner having a much lower percentage of top order wickets, right ?

Well, well, well.

Waqar Younis: 35.4%
http://howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerWicketAnalysisGraph.asp?PlayerID=1959

Jason Gillespie: 37.5%
http://howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerWicketAnalysisGraph.asp?PlayerID=2082

So, according to you, Waqar picks up many top order wickets, thereby leading to Wasim being deprived.

Strangely, Gillespie does marginally better than Waqar as far as top order wickets go, but he doesnt stop McGrath from notching up 40% ...

Find and write down the number of tests Wasim and Waqar played together and Number of tests Mcgrath and Gillespie played together. And when they played together who took what and how many ???
Prove it ?
Find more stats ??? Prove it ???

 

[Swervy]

Yeah you wont and you wont even pick Wasim as an opening bowler either ????? right . I just know one thing that if a doubt is in one's mind about some one's wrong doing then that thing does not get out of the head. I want to know about the proven accusations please ... I multiplied the ???????? because I want the conversion of the accusation as a fact .Because accusation does not prove any thing and if cannot then getting it out of the head is a much better option ..

accusations dont have to be based on fact...I could accuse Dennis Lillee of wearing a fake moustache....he has now been accused of it, and whatever happens, whether I have besed that on fact or not, he has now been accussed of it

I am not actually saying whether one is better than the other..it is a fact that based on pretty much all the major statistical categories, McGrath has been the more successful bowler, and so my arguement originally was that when people say Akram was miles better than McGrath I would suspect that opinion is based on some sort of bias and not really on what has happened, baecause statistically McGrath has been more successful

 

[Hugh]

Find and write down the number of tests Wasim and Waqar played together and Number of tests Mcgrath and Gillespie played together. And when they played together who took what and how many ???
Prove it ?
Find more stats ??? Prove it ???

Listen, you're far too obnoxious. Instead of demanding others do the work for you, why not do some yourself ? Do you think we are here to serve you ?

Now, you prove yourself.

 

[Swervy]

Find and write down the number of tests Wasim and Waqar played together and Number of tests Mcgrath and Gillespie played together. And when they played together who took what and how many ???
Prove it ?
Find more stats ??? Prove it ???

have a look at the list of players each bowler has got out:

McGrath:http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerDismissBowl.asp?PlayerID=1133

Akram:http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerDismissBowl.asp?PlayerID=0029

Looks to me that McGrath has managed to get more quality batsmen out more often than Akram

 

[Goughy]

First of all not a big deal difrference . 2ndly the break up of the wickets . Share of the prey .. Who were the partners of Mcgrath please ?????????????
One legend Waqar bowling at the other end taking half of the share of the wickets that Wasim could have taken .I highly admire Wasim now after looking at your stats . Waoh Wasim you did a better job because you had another predetor called Waqar to share your victums.... My respect for Wasim has increased a little more after reading those stats . What if Wasim was due to take the other opener who Waqar already yorked . How am I supposed to call that batsman to come out to play agian so that Wasim's stats improve a bit as an opening bowler.

Yes thats right, the stats obviously lead to those conclusions

Firstly there is a massive difference. The fact that McGraths wickets are less likely to be tail enders and that he has a better record than Akram despite taking a higher quality of wicket on average means a great deal.

McGrath was also part of a pretty good bowling attack too you know. You may have heard of guys like Warne or Gillespie

 

[marc71178]

As I said, the difference is quite considerable in Test cricket. 40% top order wickets for McGrath compared to 31% for Wasim.

And isn't it actually 40% of a lot more wickets?

 

[gunner]

mcgrath is the only one for the last 2 years taking top order wickets,

noone supports him with new ball

wasim had waqar take the other half too

if wasim had sami bowling at other end he would have got twice as many wickets

 

[deeps]

To be fair, around 3-4 years ago, I would have given the edge to Wasim as well. It's not like there is a massive difference. But the continued excellence of McGrath now overtakes Wasim, imo. I don't want to be misunderstood: its very close, I can easily see why people would rate other people from the same echelon as being better....but for me McGrath edges out.

I think it's more that you tend to remember what happened last. Wasim's memories aren't as fresh in your mind as mcgraths.

Happens all the time.

Already people have stopped thinking about Steve Waugh, but whilst he was playing he was consistently thought of in the top 5 in the world. He retires, and a few months on, people drop his name out, and its' "in the 90's lara tendulkar inzi etc.' but no waugh.

 

[silentstriker]

I think it's more that you tend to remember what happened last. Wasim's memories aren't as fresh in your mind as mcgraths.

Happens all the time.

Already people have stopped thinking about Steve Waugh, but whilst he was playing he was consistently thought of in the top 5 in the world. He retires, and a few months on, people drop his name out, and its' "in the 90's lara tendulkar inzi etc.' but no waugh.

To be fair, Waugh was never compared with Lara and Tendulkar. His batting wasn't destructive enough. But he is definatly an all timer.

Ambrose for example, is still the most menacing bowler I've personally seen.

 

[Goughy]

I think it's more that you tend to remember what happened last. Wasim's memories aren't as fresh in your mind as mcgraths.

It could be that or more likely it could be that Wasims achievements don't compare well to McGraths.