Best XIs from four different eras

[bagapath]

Have heard it too many times. “IF WG was successful in 1880s, he would have done well in 1980s as well”. Ok. Agreed. But how about the teams?

Here I have put together four combined XIs from different eras since WWII. Have stuck to two openers, three middle order batsmen, one all rounder, one WK, two fast bowlers and two spinners combo. (Except for the 76-90 era when there was a dearth of quality spinners around the globe). The career batting averages of the selected players were added to come up with the projected team total. Surprisingly the numbers are pretty similar across several decades. Even if you replace one player with another (Inzy for Sachin, Botham for Imran, Snow for P.Pollock, Bedser for Davidosn and Walcott for Harvey) the numbers dont vary much.

Looks like the best XI from the one era is only as good as the best XI from any other era.

1946 - 1960
morris 46
hutton 56
compton 50
weeks 58
harvey 48
miller 36
+evans 20
*benaud 24
davidson 24
truman 13
laker 11
386

1961 - 1975
simpson 46
boycott 47
barrington 58
g.pollock 60
kanhai 47
*sobers 57
+waite 30
hall 13
p.pollock 13
gibbs 13
bedi 8
392

1976 - 1990
gavaskar 51
greenidge 44
richards 50
chappell 53
*border 50
imran 37
+dujon 32
hadlee 27
marshall 18
lillee 13
qadir 15
390

1991 - 2005
hayden 52
langer 45
*ponting 58
lara 52
tendulkar 55
kallis 56
+gilchrist 48
warne 16
murali 2
mcgrath 7
donald 6
397

 

[bagapath]

oops...

hey
just saw an earlier thread about best teams from each decade since 1950s. could have used those teams for this purpose. but still, since i have not repeated any player in these teams and also because i think 15 years is a better time frame to choose a team from, i'll stick to this. my apologies anyways if i am repeating a "done to death" idea.

 

[archie mac]

Not bad, I would have replaced P. Pollock for Snow

 

[JBH001]

Hey Dude.

If you are going to do era's why not do actual era's?
Especially as the other thread concerning specific decades is a little similiar to this one.
Furthermore I don't think the era one as I am suggesting it has been done for a while.

If I was to break up the specific era's I would go with:

1877 - 1914. (1st Test to WW1)
1919 - 1939. (WW1 to WW2)
1946 - 1979 (WW2 to Packer Era)
1979 - 2006 (Packer era to Current)

I would also select a standard XII and not a XI.

What say you?

(all matches - if any - to be played with current balls, bats, wickets including size and height etc, along with lbw laws and no-ball laws but boundaries are as they were. Oh and one more thing if the thread starter permits, let's have uncovered pitches...)

 

[bagapath]

1877 - 1914. (1st Test to WW1)
1919 - 1939. (WW1 to WW2)
1946 - 1979 (WW2 to Packer Era)
1979 - 2006 (Packer era to Current)

Okay. Let me take a shot at it.

Pre WWI

VT Trumper
WG Grace *
Clem Hill
KS Ranjitsinhji
FS Jackson
GA Faulkner
MA Noble
W Rhodes
J Blackham+
Fred Spofforth
SF Barnes

12th man: GA Loahmann

Between World Wars

JB Hobbs
H Sutcliffe
DG Bradman *
GW Headley
Walter Hammond
LEG Ames +
Jack Gregory
Maurice Tate
Harold Larwood
WJ Oreilly
CV Grimmett

12th man: H Verity

Pre Packer Era

SM Gavaskar
Len Hutton *
IVA Richards
GS Chappell
DCS Compton
GS Sobers
Alan Knott +
R Benaud
DK Lillee
FS Truman
J Laker

12th man: KR Miller

Post Packer Era

CG Greenidge
ML Hayden
RT Ponting
BC Lara
SR Tendulkar
AC Gilchrist
Imran Khan *
RJ Hadlee
MD Marshall
SK Warne
M Muralitharan

12th man: IT Botham

 

[archie mac]

Not a bad effort, I would always find a spot for Keith Miller though

 

[marc71178]

What would the Aussies give for a player like him now?

 

[archie mac]

What would the Aussies give for a player like him now?

N. Kidman

 

[JBH001]

Well, I haven't thought about all the XII's.

But here is my selection for 1979 - 2006.

S Gavaskar
G Gooch
V Richards (cpt)
B Lara
S Tendulkar
A Gilchrist (wk)
I Khan (v cpt)
W Akram
S Warne
M Marshall
G McGrath

M Muralitheran

 

[Autobahn]

N. Kidman

Nowadays that only buys you Shane Lee.

 

[bagapath]

Well, I haven't thought about all the XII's.

But here is my selection for 1979 - 2006.

S Gavaskar
G Gooch
V Richards (cpt)
B Lara
S Tendulkar
A Gilchrist (wk)
I Khan (v cpt)
W Akram
S Warne
M Marshall
G McGrath

M Muralitheran

well, mcgrath for hadlee and gooch for greenidge are probably acceptale. but akram for murali? not sure at all.

yeap, akram is the greatest left arm fast bowler ever (along with davidson). but he averaged less than four wickets per test. murali averages 6. also akram's average against all the big cricketing nations is bad. finally, with imran, marshall and hadlee/ mcgrath why do you need a fourth pacer?

 

[SJS]

Off the top (means subject to correction as afterthought) I would say :-

Pre WW1

1. Trumper
2. WG (Captain)
3. Ranji
4. George Gunn
5. FS Jackson (RAMP)
6. Faulkner (RALS)
7. Rhodes (LAS)
8. Lilley (keeper)
9. Lohmann (RAF)
10. Barnes (RAMP)
11. Turner (RAFM)

Between Wars

1. Hobbs
2. Sutcliffe
3. Bradman (Captain)
4. Hammond
5. George Headley
6. Ames (keeper)
7. Gregory (RAF)
8. Larwood (RAF)
9. Tate (RAMP)
10. Orielly (RALS)
11. Verity (LAS)

Post WW2 till Packer

1. Hutton
2. Richards Barry
3. Compton
4. Weekes
5. Worrell (Captain)
6. Sobers (LA)
7. Miller (RAF)
8. Lindwall (RAF)
9. Evans (keeper)
10. Laker (RAOS)
11. Lillee (RAF)

Post Packer

1. Gavaskar
2. Greenidge
3. Richards Viv
4. Tendulkar
5. Lara
6. Imran (Captain - RAF)
7. Hadlee (RAF)
8. Marshall (RAF)
9. Taylor (keeper)
10. Warne (RALS)
11. Murali (RAOS)

Besides five frontline bowlers every side has another fine bowler who has been taken mainly for his batting starting with Grace on to Hammond, Worrell and Viv Richards (part time).

All keepers have been taken on basis of keeping skills. In the case of Ames his batting was taken into account to bolster a slightly longer tail though Gregory was an all rounder.

 

[archie mac]

Good choices SJS not sure about Grimmett batting before Tate? I think Clarrie may enjoy the idea though

 

[bagapath]

great teams sjs. but i'm not able to accept barry as an opener in post packer XI!

someone who made his debut before dennis lillee, who is bowling for your pre-packer XI, should not be considered for the next era is what i feel. i would go for greenidge

 

[Goughy]

SJS, looking at your teams I like them but rather than write my full lists Ill just note what changes I may have made from yours.

Post-Packer Team
- I love Bob Taylor but Gilchrist has to be the man selected.
- The batting looks kind of weak, so I would be faced with choosing which spinner to drop (Murali or Warne) to fit in either Ponting or Kallis.

Between Wars
- The Pre-Packer team only has 4 specialist bowlers with Sobers helping out. The Between wars team looks a little light on batting with 5 specialst bowlers. I would probably drop Tate for either Payner or McCabe and use Hammond as the 5th bowler.
- I would drop either Grimmett or Tiger for Verity (probably Grimmett)

Pre-Packer.
- I would have to find a place for Fiery Fred or even Tyson.
- I would drop Evans and Worrell and have Walcott as my keeper and Hutton as my keeper.

Pre WW1
- I would love to find a place for Hirst

Anyway this is off the top of my head. I guess I should do it properly and see how big the differences are.

 

[SJS]

great teams sjs. but i'm not able to accept barry as an opener in post packer XI!

someone who made his debut before dennis lillee, who is bowling for your pre-packer XI, should not be considered for the next era is what i feel. i would go for greenidge

Valid Point. I am putting Barry in the earlier era. I have never seen the great man batting but I have talked to people who have and most people are at loss of words including the 'full-of-words' Bishan Bedi.

 

[SJS]

Good choices SJS not sure about Grimmett batting before Tate? I think Clarrie may enjoy the idea though

Point.

 

[SJS]

SJS, looking at your teams I like them but rather than write my full lists Ill just note what changes I may have made from yours.

Post-Packer Team
- I love Bob Taylor but Gilchrist has to be the man selected.
- The batting looks kind of weak, so I would be faced with choosing which spinner to drop (Murali or Warne) to fit in either Ponting or Kallis.

Between Wars
- The Pre-Packer team only has 4 specialist bowlers with Sobers helping out. The Between wars team looks a little light on batting with 5 specialst bowlers. I would probably drop Tate for either Payner or McCabe and use Hammond as the 5th bowler.
- I would drop either Grimmett or Tiger for Verity (probably Grimmett)

Pre-Packer.
- I would have to find a place for Fiery Fred or even Tyson.
- I would drop Evans and Worrell and have Walcott as my keeper and Hutton as my keeper.

Pre WW1
- I would love to find a place for Hirst

Anyway this is off the top of my head. I guess I should do it properly and see how big the differences are.

Wicket keepers
I have kept wickets myself and am a stickler for the policy of selecting the best keepers unless the difference between their keeping is tiny while the difference in batting is huge. With due respects to Gilchrist and his zillions of fans here, I do not consider him a keeping great. I can find half a dozen keepers to put before him. Same for Walcott who suffers being a keeper I feel. If he was a pure batsman more people would have him on their all time list. Ames was a great keeper in an era of great keepers AND a world class bat. Same is not true for Gilchrist and Walcott. The difference between their keeping and that of Taylor is huge.

Pre-packer team
I dont think the pre Packer team is weak in batting. I think they have the strongest number seven in all the teams. I suspect you missed Miller. at seven. He was good enough to bat at number four for Australia. I almost put him ahead of Sobers mainly because Sobers might have been more comfortable at seven

Regarding four bowlers in the pre-packer team, I think you do grevious injustice to Sobers.

I thought of Tyson and Trueman and then dropped Tyson because his glory too short and dropped Trueman for Miller's superior batting skills. Lindwall and Lillee are automatic choices for me.

I think Worrell is highly under-rated today as a batsman. His average (as close to fifty as you can get) is not modest but his skills were even greater. Many consider him the finest West Indian batsman in an era when Windies were replete with great batsmanship. I have talked to old timers who have seen him batting and most agreed that he was the best batsman from the three W's and thats as high as praise can get I think. Add to that his brilliant fielding, decent bowling and fantastic captaincy and he is in my team.

I wasnt too happy having Boycott to open and did think of using Worrell as opener but he really played very little as opener even though one innings was a near double hundred. With Richards switching eras, I am okay now.

Post Packer
Keeping discussed.

Murali and Warne. I am a strong believer in playing your best bowlers which means playing three spinners or three pacers if need be, unless the wicket is something special.

I dont see how the two greatest bowlers of this era, arguably two of the greatest in history can be dropped unless we know the wicket is not going to suit spinners.

You are right about the batting to an extent. I think its because we have two 'all rounders' at six and seven who are not in the same batting class as Sobers for example. I thought of Botham in place of Hadlee but put Hadlee back for his great bowling. The only possibility of strengthening the line up batting wise could be to drop Marshall and bring Botham at six with Imran and Hadlee dropping one place each.

Between Wars

I think you are right about dropping one of the two leg spinners and bring in variety in the form of Verity. I am tossing a coin to see who to drop and out goes Grimmett

I stick to my five bowlers and this team needs a longer batting less than any other since it has six batsmen alread with 'two' of them coming in at number three in the form of the Don.

Oh yes. You probably missed Ames at six who could play as a batsman in most teams and batted at number four for England averaging above 40 with 8 test centuries !!! So this team has SEVEN batsmen

Pre WW1

I thought of Hirst but refuse to drop Faulkner one of the greatest and relatively unheralded all rounders in history. Also Rhodes and Hirst would give a 'sameness' to the attack.The other possibilty was to replace his legendry 'neighbour' . It was a toss up and I chose Rhodes due to his many 'long' innings at test level including record test opening partnership with Hobbs.

 

[Goughy]

Fair enough, You make very good justifications for your decisions. Life would be boring if we all thought identically.

Pre WW1

I thought of Hirst but refuse to drop Faulkner one of the greatest and relatively unheralded all rounders in history. Also Rhodes and Hirst would give a 'sameness' to the attack.

Rhodes was Left arm orthadox and flighted the ball massively, and Hirst was Left arm Medium and the godfather of modern swing bowling.

One was a spinner and the other a medium pacer so it cannot add too much 'sameness' to the attack.

 

[SJS]

Rhodes was Left arm orthadox and flighted the ball massively, and Hirst was Left arm Medium and the godfather of modern swing bowling.

One was a spinner and the other a medium pacer so it cannot add too much 'sameness' to the attack.

Thats true. You have a point