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Group A - Australia, Bangladesh, England, New Zealand

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Pakistan played alright after losing to India in 2015 tbh. Beat SA and reached the quarters.
They managed to pick themselves up ultimately but the first few games were shocking

1/4 (Not Channel 9 scorecard) against West Indies which culminated in a major thrashing

4/2 against Zimbabwe, 120/5 at one stage and almost lost the game.


It took Misbah's tear filled speech before South Africa "boys, if we don't win this, we're going home" which sort pushed them through to the quarters.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
CW is notorious for being cold and unwelcoming to newer members..and then we turn around and say 'oh why aren't we getting any decent new members?'
 

Howe_zat

Audio File
Yes
Yes
Because Champions Trophy struggles to get a window between cricket schedules of other teams, and the only window available is June, and the only country hosting cricket at that time is England. You can make a case for Sri Lanka.
No it's because this and the 2013 tournament were both originally an attempt at the world Test tournament, which would be played in England. Plans fell through twice.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
CW is notorious for being cold and unwelcoming to newer members..and then we turn around and say 'oh why aren't we getting any decent new members?'
I don't think it is cold, maybe a bit unforgiving regards stupid posts until you are an established poster... but as a new forum user do you cautiously give your opinion or do you go gun-ho and give overblown sometimes inflammatory opinions based on what you read on reddit and expected not to be ridiculed?
 

Gnske

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
CW is notorious for being cold and unwelcoming to newer members..and then we turn around and say 'oh why aren't we getting any decent new members?'
Ever heard of natural selection?

The strong survive here, the weak burn out quickly. A strong posting base is better than a weak core. Less is more.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
It's part why I'm surprised England are being made favourites. Sure they have home advantage, but this format is as dangerous as the World Cup (2007 I believe) where one bad day at the office can see the head to head against the team supposed to go through with them knock them out eg Pakistan and India then....

Lose any one match and you're vulnerable, if England lose either of their first two games then they'll face having to beat the aussies and even Bangladesh won't be a pushover.

I'm not so sure the other group is quite as clear cut, I mean I rate this group higher regardless who you consider top two in either group, whoever is deemed third best is better than say Pakistan whilst Bangladesh aren't as far behind Sri Lanka, if indeed they are, as some might think on face value - rankings or no. I think it speaks volumes that England are assessing how much of a part Stokes can play, if they didn't fear Bangladesh I'd suggest he would be "rested" but they know the balance of the side is hinging on being able to play him, Ali and even Woakes.

Without any of them England were beaten all too easily, not that Stokes has bowled a great deal in recent ODIs. I'll split his batting and bowling neatly into 5 spells of 11 ODIs, notice he hasn't always bowled but you do have to question if he's as capable of bowling a full role as he has been at times in the past..

Ben Stokes (ODIs)

Batting :
ODIs 01-11 : 7 inns, 108 runs @ 15.43 (HS 27, SR 81.20)
ODIs 12-22 : 11 inns, 168 runs @ 16.80 (HS 70, SR 74.34)
ODIs 23-33 : 10 inns, 226 runs @ 25.11 (HS 68, SR 105.61)
ODIs 34-44 : 10 inns, 384 runs @ 42.67 (HS 75, SR 106.08)
ODIs 45-55 : 11 inns, 484 runs @ 53.78 (HS 101, SR 112.56)

Stokes scored 101 twice in his last 11 innings, and if you take his last 22 innings he has scored two hundreds, seven fifties and four other scores between 40 and 50, totalling 909 runs @ 47.84 and an SR of 107.45. Perhaps the problem is his improvement in leaps and bounds, both the average and SR improving pretty steadily now after being initially very disappointing, is his bowling and in particular ability to bowl his allocation/at all

Bowling* :
ODIs 01-11 (5) : 49 overs, 7 wkts @ 40.57 (ER 5.80)
ODIs 12-22 (10) : 62 overs, 13 wkts @ 29.23 (ER 6.13)
ODIs 23-33 (11) : 65 overs, 12 wkts @ 36.00 (ER 6.65)
ODIs 34-44 (7) : 45.2 overs, 5 wkts @ 49.60 (ER 5.47)
ODIs 45-55 (11) : 70 overs, 10 wkts @ 42.70 (ER 6.10)

*number of innings he bowled in brackets after the ODI spell

Stokes has bowled more overs in his last 11 ODIs than any other split of overs, but in his first 11 ODIs he may have only bowled 49 overs but bowled 9-10 overs in each of the five in which he did bowl. If you split the ODIs into 11 and just cite how many times he's bowled 8-10 overs within those 11 ODIs you see 5, 3, 4, 3 and 4 in order listed above. Take those out of maximum possible ie how many times he bowled, and convert to a percentage and it reads 100%, 30%, 36%, 43% and 36% . Obviously there isn't always a call for bowler to complete his allocation, especially with England fielding six bowling options a lot of the time, but if you consider the percentages where he's bowled X overs out of a possible 10 and you get 98%, 62%, 59%, 65% and 64% which suggests on average he's coming up 3-4 overs short

Sure that may sound reasonable given his injury problems, but for him to be the all-round weapon he has the potential to be surely you'd want him bowling as much as possible and maybe his figures would read better if he didn't play so often but when he did was fit to bowl a lot of very good, quick, aggressive and hopefully productive overs. For an all-rounder of his ability the number of wickets he's picked up recently is very disappointing, Whilst many make a lot of ER, anything around 5.75-6.25 is about par for the course with totals hitting 300 as much as they do, but wicket taking is what wins ODIs a lot if not all of the time.
I'm not all that sure that his bowling is that well suited to ODI cricket in the first place. He should be treated as a batting all-rounder in the format, who can contributed 6 overs with the ball - and on a hot day, he might fulfil his ten.

England also have faith in him at the death, do you want him to be bowling his tenth over to finish the game, or will he be fresher / more effective if it's only his seventh or eighth.

Lastly, with one day series being played usually within a confined time period, and only a few days between games, he's going to be managed with his bowling workload to ensure that he can play every game because he's crucial to the batting line-up. This is going to be doubly so as he ends up batting for longer periods, as he has in recent times. Most of the quicks will have a rest in a five game one day series, Stokes not bowling ten overs is the best way to ensure he doesn't have to do this and still let the side have the balance of six bowlers.
 

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
Dropping Rashid when you're playing at the Oval is a bit bizarre. Maybe they're worried about Stokes bowling his full allocatation but interesting nonetheless.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
I don't think it is cold, maybe a bit unforgiving regards stupid posts until you are an established poster... but as a new forum user do you cautiously give your opinion or do you go gun-ho and give overblown sometimes inflammatory opinions based on what you read on reddit and expected not to be ridiculed?
Nah I'd still say CW can come across as cold. It's an old forum, so there are various clubs and cliques and they don't generally welcome new members or outsiders especially one with his own independent views that contradict or challenge the dominant ones held by the cliques.
 

JRC67

U19 12th Man
Dropping Rashid when you're playing at the Oval is a bit bizarre. Maybe they're worried about Stokes bowling his full allocatation but interesting nonetheless.
I'd guess they worried about Bangladesh against spin and Woakes and Stokes both had injury worries. Rashid didn't bowl that well against South Africa. Big call we will see how the rest of the game pans out.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Kinda shocked the username Long-Hop was available, tbh. Good post too, getting more than a sentence from The Mac should be forum flair or something.
 

Bijed

International Regular
He said trying to leg-bye a six. He clearly mean bopping one over the tiny boundary off the pad. I'm just informing him that, were that to happen, it would only be a 4. To score a 6 you need to hit it off the bat.
Shame, would be kinda fun.

OTOH, I like the rule as it lets me imagine that it was brought in to restore balance after early cricket was dominated by the overpowered tactic of padding balls for six.
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
I don't think it is cold, maybe a bit unforgiving regards stupid posts until you are an established poster... but as a new forum user do you cautiously give your opinion or do you go gun-ho and give overblown sometimes inflammatory opinions based on what you read on reddit and expected not to be ridiculed?
100% this. The new members that tend to get a cold reception are always the ones that storm in here like a bull in a china shop........picking fights with people they haven't even taken the time to get to know.
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
Nah I'd still say CW can come across as cold. It's an old forum, so there are various clubs and cliques and they don't generally welcome new members or outsiders especially one with his own independent views that contradict or challenge the dominant ones held by the cliques.
I reckon this is rubbish. I hear so much talk of cliques and bullying etc........just don't post like a knob and you will be fine. (edit :just to be clear that "you" is the general you and not you BW)

And that doesn't mean for a second that you can't voice an opinion that goes against the grain, but just do it in a reasonable manner and you will find the vast majority here will respond in kind even if they disagree.
 
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Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
We actually seen to have a new member who wants to break down stats and do analysis without some sort of agenda, and you are scaring him off?

Expect better from a BOTM Finalist tbh
Oh. I thought it was Whelan. Didn't realise the bloke was a new member.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Wont happen but you'd like to think that some pitches will have a bit more juice in them than this one

Turned it off after about an hour as it was obviously just going to be a bashathon with the bowlers being bit players
 

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