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Thread: Ramdin ban

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    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Ramdin ban

    So Ramdin has got a two match ban for claiming that catch the other day.

    What are peoples thoughts on this?

    Thought it deserved a thread by itself as it will get swallowed up in the group b discussion by the games.

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    Deserves it.

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    are we gonna start suspending shane watson for his reviews
    Indians can't bowl - Where has the rumour come from as I myself and many indian friends arwe competent fast bowlers ?

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    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey View Post
    are we gonna start suspending shane watson for his reviews
    Him and Broad would miss more games than they play if you started doing that.


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    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Has anyone ever been banned for something similar before? Seems weird to me. Would have been satisfied with a small fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    C'mon, he picked the ball up off the floor.

    He knew...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    C'mon, he picked the ball up off the floor.

    He knew...
    Exactly, I mean it's not even up for debate, he clearly cheated.

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    International Debutant Viscount Tom's Avatar
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    Its Ramdin and he cheated.

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    State Captain Stapel's Avatar
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    Claiming a catch that clearly wasn't a proper one, is just so incredibly stupid, when playing at a ground with a gazillion cameras. Nobody smart enough to know how to whipe his arse is dumb enough to think he can get away with it. Which tends to make me conclude Ramdin made a foolish error.

    Anyway, guilty, but two matches suspension seems harsh. Is there anyway he was celebrating (rather than claiming) and forgot to notice the catch wasn't completed yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinet96 View Post
    Has anyone ever been banned for something similar before? Seems weird to me. Would have been satisfied with a small fine.
    I'm pretty certain that there is a precedent for this, probably involving some sort of ban. I'll see if i can track it down on the internet.

    EDIT: Well not I think what i was thinking of, but there is this
    Last edited by greg; 10-06-2013 at 11:56 AM.

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    International Vice-Captain BeeGee's Avatar
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    He cheated and deserves the ban.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeGee View Post
    He cheated and deserves the ban.
    Whilst i agree, it does raise the perennial question of what is, and isn't, 'cheating' in cricket. It's pretty well established (certainly at international level - less so perhaps at club level especially without neutral umpires) that batsmen are under no obligation to walk if they have edged the ball.

    However there are numerous examples of batsmen effectively looking to deceive the umpire to different degrees - the main example being "showing the bat" on LBW decisions when video replays subsequently demonstrate that the bat was nowhere near the ball. There is also the grey area of disputed catches. And fielding sides appealing in general when they must know that a decision isn't out.

    I think that Ramdin got caught in the moment - maybe on one level he thought that he had completed the catch and then, separately put it on the ground. I think the umpire may have given the decision before he was aware that the ball was on the ground, at which point he wasn't strong enough to own up. So perhaps 'accidental' cheating, if there is such a thing. But cheating none the less.

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    State Captain Stapel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    Whilst i agree, it does raise the perennial question of what is, and isn't, 'cheating' in cricket. It's pretty well established (certainly at international level - less so perhaps at club level especially without neutral umpires) that batsmen are under no obligation to walk if they have edged the ball.

    However there are numerous examples of batsmen effectively looking to deceive the umpire to different degrees - the main example being "showing the bat" on LBW decisions when video replays subsequently demonstrate that the bat was nowhere near the ball. There is also the grey area of disputed catches. And fielding sides appealing in general when they must know that a decision isn't out.

    I think that Ramdin got caught in the moment - maybe on one level he thought that he had completed the catch and then, separately put it on the ground. I think the umpire may have given the decision before he was aware that the ball was on the ground, at which point he wasn't strong enough to own up. So perhaps 'accidental' cheating, if there is such a thing. But cheating none the less.
    I think there is indeed a thing like accidental cheating. A wish can simply, and possibly immediately, grow into a firm believe. I've turned down so many LBW calls, being 100% sure it would bounce over, while the (body) language of the bowler really suggested an honoust believe it was 100% sure hitting.....

    Ramdin getting caught in the moment indeed seems plausible. Especially, as I've said earlier, because he knew he wouldn't get away with it!

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    International Vice-Captain BeeGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    Whilst i agree, it does raise the perennial question of what is, and isn't, 'cheating' in cricket. It's pretty well established (certainly at international level - less so perhaps at club level especially without neutral umpires) that batsmen are under no obligation to walk if they have edged the ball.

    However there are numerous examples of batsmen effectively looking to deceive the umpire to different degrees - the main example being "showing the bat" on LBW decisions when video replays subsequently demonstrate that the bat was nowhere near the ball. There is also the grey area of disputed catches. And fielding sides appealing in general when they must know that a decision isn't out.

    I think that Ramdin got caught in the moment - maybe on one level he thought that he had completed the catch and then, separately put it on the ground. I think the umpire may have given the decision before he was aware that the ball was on the ground, at which point he wasn't strong enough to own up. So perhaps 'accidental' cheating, if there is such a thing. But cheating none the less.
    Yeah, there's always a grey area when you're talking about things that fall under the ICC Code of Conduct - "conduct that is contrary to the spirit of the game". For me the difference between the Ramdin incident and the other things you mention is there was a 100% certainty that Ramdin knew he hadn't taken the catch.

  15. #15
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    Whilst i agree, it does raise the perennial question of what is, and isn't, 'cheating' in cricket. It's pretty well established (certainly at international level - less so perhaps at club level especially without neutral umpires) that batsmen are under no obligation to walk if they have edged the ball.

    However there are numerous examples of batsmen effectively looking to deceive the umpire to different degrees - the main example being "showing the bat" on LBW decisions when video replays subsequently demonstrate that the bat was nowhere near the ball. There is also the grey area of disputed catches. And fielding sides appealing in general when they must know that a decision isn't out.

    I think that Ramdin got caught in the moment - maybe on one level he thought that he had completed the catch and then, separately put it on the ground. I think the umpire may have given the decision before he was aware that the ball was on the ground, at which point he wasn't strong enough to own up. So perhaps 'accidental' cheating, if there is such a thing. But cheating none the less.
    I think this is quite important actually. I'm not so sure about accidental cheating, but I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't really trying to cheat. When the umpires given it and your team mates are running to you with joy on their faces it must be quite hard to tell them all you dropped it. I mean, even if he's not the brightest it would be something else to just pick the ball up off the ground thinking he would get away with it, and for that reason I think it may be more complicated than it appears.

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