*Official* Second Test at Lords

[Pothas]

Call me crazy but IF Lords has something in it for the bowlers and IF Ponting goes cheaply, it would not surprise me if Eng won this test

Ponting is by far the outstanding cricketer on either side and Eng simply needs to get on a roll in favourable conditions to knock Aus over

I think England will win at least one test in this series, although the bowling lineup looked totally inept in the first test I think it will fire at least once in the series. Would be very surprised if it was this one though

 

[social]

I think England will win at least one test in this series, although the bowling lineup looked totally inept in the first test I think it will fire at least once in the series. Would be very surprised if it was this one though

Lords was a minefield vs the WI and apparently they've been pouring water into it recently

IMO, their best chance is at Lords because it can be very good to seam bowlers and a flogging here will leave their only chance as tiredness/complacency

 

[tooextracool]

But will Lords? I wonder if we shouldn't leave Harmison on ice for a later match.

Athers just stated that there was a tinge of green on the surface which could mean that there might be a bit of seam movement. When the WI toured earlier this summer there was definitely some juice in the surface as well.

 

[four_or_six]

Athers just stated that there was a tinge of green on the surface which could mean that there might be a bit of seam movement. When the WI toured earlier this summer there was definitely some juice in the surface as well.

Yeah, I heard that too. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out wrt the pitch.

It's so difficult to decide on the rest of the bowling attack when you don't know if Flintoff is playing or not.

 

[social]

Yeah, I heard that too. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out wrt the pitch.

It's so difficult to decide on the rest of the bowling attack when you don't know if Flintoff is playing or not.

He'll play and so will Harmy

I'd be amazed if it doesnt come down to Broad vs Onions

 

[tooextracool]

He'll play and so will Harmy

I'd be amazed if it doesnt come down to Broad vs Onions

I'd be very surprised if they drop Broad. IMO Onions will end up playing if Flintoff is fit, otherwise Harmison and Bell will come in to replace Flintoff and Panesar. Not necessarily the right move IMO, but that's what will end up happening.

 

[Pothas]

Lords was a minefield vs the WI and apparently they've been pouring water into it recently

IMO, their best chance is at Lords because it can be very good to seam bowlers and a flogging here will leave their only chance as tiredness/complacency

Do not expect Lords to be a minefield, I certainly hope not as I have tickets for the last day.

Think that a lot might depend on the weather but I would have thought that Englands best chance at victory would be Headingley or Trent Bridge

 

[tooextracool]

Think that a lot might depend on the weather but I would have thought that Englands best chance at victory would be Headingley or Trent Bridge

Might have been the case if they were actually playing at Trent Bridge.

England's best chance is at the Oval IMO.

 

[Pothas]

Might have been the case if they were actually playing at Trent Bridge.

England's best chance is at the Oval IMO.

oh yeah, stupid Cardiff. Always forget Edgbaston for some reason.

 

[FBU]

We can't play Flintoff, Harmison and Broad, all tall bang it in the wicket bowlers in the same Test.

Surely we need 5 different types of bowlers and stick with the same ones whatever the pitch and a couple or three will be successful at different stages of the series.

I hate horses for courses picks. As usual we will be guessing what the wicket is going to do over 5 days, also guessing on the weather. The selection for the last Test showed how wrong they were. It's not fair to the bowlers to be in and out of the side and not be able to carry their rhythm into the next Test.

I also think you need to have 3 bowlers with strike rates in the low 50s with your all rounder and spinner in the 60s. In the last Test we had 2 spinners and 2 all rounders with their strike rates in the 60s and 70s.

Ideally a swing bowler, wicket to wicket seamer, tall bowler with bounce, fast bowler who averages 90mph and a spinner.

That would be
Hilfenhaus, Siddle, Clark, Lee, Hauritz
Anderson, Onions, Harmison, Flintoff, Swann

 

[Uppercut]

I also think you need to have 3 bowlers with strike rates in the low 50s

What? Why? I can't think of any team that does...

 

[superkingdave]

Forecast looks ok for Thursday but dodgy on Friday and Saturday, and decent for Sunday. Friday in particular looks crappy.

 

[GIMH]

Got a mate round on Sunday for the Test so glad that day's rain-free. It also means there will be no repeat of my annoying the hell out of everyone during the game. I'll be sure to visit later on though.

 

[Richard]

No... but there was something about Shah in the WI. I was a huge advocate of him playing ahead of Bell there, right from the start. But somehow, one we got to the end of the series I was less than convinced.

If someone in charge had taken a similar attitude we'd never have seen a lengthy career from more batsmen than not.

Yes, Shah was very disappointing indeed in the three Tests in West Indies. But you do not, under any circumstances, write a player off on that few a number of games.

 

[Richard]

We can't play Flintoff, Harmison and Broad, all tall bang it in the wicket bowlers in the same Test.

Surely we need 5 different types of bowlers and stick with the same ones whatever the pitch and a couple or three will be successful at different stages of the series.

I hate horses for courses picks. As usual we will be guessing what the wicket is going to do over 5 days, also guessing on the weather. The selection for the last Test showed how wrong they were. It's not fair to the bowlers to be in and out of the side and not be able to carry their rhythm into the next Test.

I also think you need to have 3 bowlers with strike rates in the low 50s with your all rounder and spinner in the 60s. In the last Test we had 2 spinners and 2 all rounders with their strike rates in the 60s and 70s.

Ideally a swing bowler, wicket to wicket seamer, tall bowler with bounce, fast bowler who averages 90mph and a spinner.

That would be
Hilfenhaus, Siddle, Clark, Lee, Hauritz
Anderson, Onions, Harmison, Flintoff, Swann

Variety = most overrated thing. Your best chance is to pick your best (ideally four, sometimes neccessary to be five) bowlers, according to what conditions are. Of course there are some conditions where a spinner will be a better bowler than a seamer, but equally if there's no spinners of the requisite quality there's no point picking them - ever - over the head of decent-quality seamers.

Equally, if the deck is doing plenty you don't neccessarily need swing bowlers, or spinners - just hit the seam and bowl good lines. That's all you need to do. If the ball is a good one that's swinging lavishly and the pitch has good bounce you'll never mind get by with but have your best chance with four quality swing bowlers, never mind whether they're tall or short. Etc. etc. Play to your own strengths, and recognise that your strengths are

If you have five different bowlers, who all have different strengths and weaknesses, and never change them at all you'll just end-up with a situation like England in 2005 where most of the attack was passenger-esque on two-thirds of the occasions and everything depended on one or two bowlers.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Broad performed slightly less well than Onions in the test series against the WI. Broad took 12 wickets at 30 with 1 5-fer and Onions 10 wickets at 20 with 1 5-fer.

And as for comparing their FC wickets for the season, how can you do that when Broad has only played once for Nottinghamshire? (And got seven wickets in the match ftr).

I'd say 10 runs less for your bowling average with only 2 less wickets is quite a difference. That's only going on their stats mind you.

 

[FBU]

Variety = most overrated thing. Your best chance is to pick your best (ideally four, sometimes neccessary to be five) bowlers, according to what conditions are. Of course there are some conditions where a spinner will be a better bowler than a seamer, but equally if there's no spinners of the requisite quality there's no point picking them - ever - over the head of decent-quality seamers.

Equally, if the deck is doing plenty you don't neccessarily need swing bowlers, or spinners - just hit the seam and bowl good lines. That's all you need to do. If the ball is a good one that's swinging lavishly and the pitch has good bounce you'll never mind get by with but have your best chance with four quality swing bowlers, never mind whether they're tall or short. Etc. etc. Play to your own strengths, and recognise that your strengths are

If you have five different bowlers, who all have different strengths and weaknesses, and never change them at all you'll just end-up with a situation like England in 2005 where most of the attack was passenger-esque on two-thirds of the occasions and everything depended on one or two bowlers.

The thing is you don't know what the ball, the wicket or the weather is going to do before the match starts so if you think it's going to swing at a particular ground and with rain around and a damp outfield and there is no swing or even if the ball doesn't swing with the sun out, you have 4 swing bowlers. Variety covers all possibilities with so many slow flat wickets around these days.

Also by chopping and changing the attack you won't have your bowlers learning to bowl on all types of wickets. If we had kept Hoggard just for games where we thought there was swing he wouldn't have developed into a bowler who could bowl anywhere.

The fast bowlers in 2005 took roughly the same amount of wickets and their strike rates were 34.0, 48.5, 45.8 and 56.8.

 

[four_or_six]

On twitter, Stephen Fry said Freddie reckons he will be fit. (He was at a charity cricket dinner with him last night.)

 

[The Sean]

Forecast looks ok for Thursday but dodgy on Friday and Saturday, and decent for Sunday. Friday in particular looks crappy.

Sounds good to me as I'm there on Sunday-Monday.

I can't imagine the groundskeepers at Lord's will want to make it too much of a minefield - as much as I'm sure they're aware of the criticism of it being a bore draw road for years, the last thing they need with five sold out days is for the Test to be over in three.

 

[inbox24]

If Lords is a greentop, then Clark should definitely play, at the expense of anyone, excepting Hilfenhaus.