Group D: Uruguay, Costa Rica, England, Italy

[sledger]

Agreed. I haven't seen much of Lallana but ppl want him starting? In place of Rooney or Welbeck? I just don't see it.

I suspect these two things are linked.

 

[Furball]

This nonsense that Rooney has to play must stop. Sterling's in better form and a bigger threat from a central position, so instead of shoehorning him into the side he should be dropped.

 

[grecian]

This nonsense that Rooney has to play must stop. Sterling's in better form and a bigger threat from a central position, so instead of shoehorning him into the side he should be dropped.

I agree, won't happen though. The system looks like it could bring the best out of the players we've got, even if Rooney is our best player he patently doesn't work in the system.

Anyway, I should hate super Mario for getting the winner, but I just cannot

 

[sledger]

What a guy.

I wonder what his team mates think of that, mind you.

 

[Uppercut]

The Irish Times crew reckon the English media have completely let Hodgson off the hook for the Rooney-left-wing balls-up.

 

[sledger]

The Irish Times crew reckon the English media have completely let Hodgson off the hook for the Rooney-left-wing balls-up.

Everyone here seems to be blaming Rooney, from what I can see.

 

[Uppercut]

I thought that was partly fair enough, but according to Ken Early he was bombing up and down the touchline for the whole game, but off-camera. Apparently ran further than any other player before half-time.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/where-went-wrong-wayne-rooney-121203902.html This was the best article around on Rooney after the game. It's stuff that Ferguson picked up on 18 months ago but most fans are only realising now.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Umm, I thought Wellbeck played well, reckon we were worse when he went off.

Yeah I am not denying he played well, I just don't think he is as good as either Lallana or Sterling though, especially as a winger which is where he would inevitably play if he was selected. Basically what I am saying is that one performance hasn't changed my mind that he isn't in England's strongest XI.

The "Rooney has to play at 10 or not at all" is slightly annoying if only because his best position is actually as a number nine, as Rio said yesterday. If you want to get the most out of him play him there. I think we are all agreed he shouldn't be on the wing though.

 

[Uppercut]

Sturridge is now an undeniably better 9 though, so it's a moot point.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Sturridge is now an undeniably better 9 though, so it's a moot point.

Really? Rooney hasn't really played at 9 since 09/10, when there was a genuine debate about where he stood in comparison to Messi and Ronaldo. As ridiculous as that was, Rooney's 09/10 was better than Sturridge's last season. People have forgotten how gun he was that season.

I'm not necessarily advocating playing Rooney at 9, fwiw. It's a difficult one. You basically have players in several of the attacking positions who share the same best position and the same weaker position and it's difficult to say who should play where. I was just making the point that Rooney is a far better 9 than 10 and a lot of the hate Rooney has got in recent times has been because to some extent playing him at 10 is out of position, which is where he's played for United and England for a while now.

EDIT: He played at 9 a bit in 11/12 actually, but not on any sort of regular basis. Played everywhere that season really, including some games in central midfield.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah in 11/12 he mostly played a sort of 9/10 hybrid with Welbeck doing the same.

I just consider it hopelessly unlikely that Rooney's performances will improve to the point of being better than Sturridge if played at 9. Sturridge tired very badly in the last game though, so Rooney's most effective role might be as his replacement.

 

[sledger]

I actually thought Rooney did ok on the left to be honest. He didn't seem to be any more or less effective than at any other point I've seen him play over the last two seasons or so. Him playing on the left meant that Baines was massively exposed for much of the game, so the decision to play Rooney on the left may have been suspect for this reason, but I don't think Rooney himself was especially bad.

 

[Tangles]

I thought that was partly fair enough, but according to Ken Early he was bombing up and down the touchline for the whole game, but off-camera. Apparently ran further than any other player before half-time.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/where-went-wrong-wayne-rooney-121203902.html This was the best article around on Rooney after the game. It's stuff that Ferguson picked up on 18 months ago but most fans are only realising now.

Interesting article. I definitely had throwback memories of Scholes on the wing.

 

[sledger]

I think everyone is agreed that Rooney probably ought to be dropped for the next game, but who'd be prepared to bet that he will be?

 

[sledger]

Interesting article. I definitely had throwback memories of Scholes on the wing.

I don't think their situations are really comparable to be honest, and in any case that's not the point of the article. Both were played out of position on the left, sure, but that's where the similarities end. Scholes was a player absolutely in his prime during the period he was used there. As the article alludes to, Rooney is in a complete trough.

 

[Tangles]

Both managers didn't have the balls to pick them in their best position. Too afraid of the media and the average England supporter who reads their drivel.

If they drop him, which I don't agree with, don't plan on getting anything from him as a sub.

 

[sledger]

Both managers didn't have the balls to pick them in their best position. Too afraid of the media and the average England supporter who reads their drivel.

What? This isn't true at all. As has been said in here, it's not a case of Roy not having the balls to pick Rooney in his best position, it's that Rooney simply is not good enough to be picked in his best position at the moment.

Suggesting Sven didn't have the balls to pick Scholes in his best position is curious as well. He played there plenty of times until Lampard came on the scene. He was only shifted out wide when trying to fit Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes into one team became an issue. Sven opting for Lampard and Gerrard in the middle was a poor choice, but hindsight is a wonderful thing, and it appears he believed at the time that this was the best course of action. To suggest this was a case of him "not having the balls" to play Scholes in the centre is nonsense.

 

[GIMH]

Nah sorry the Scholes on the left thing sees a lot of revisionism these days. Yes he shouldn't have been played there but based on the prior season he didn't deserve to be one of two central midfielders. And nobody, not even Grecian, was onto Gerrard and Lampard being incompatible, and Gerrard had played deep all season.

It is in a sense similar to the current situation IMO. Scholes was played there because the other option was someone else (Joe Cole?) playing wide left and Scholes sitting on the bench. Much like it would have been best doing with Rooney on Saturday.

Also, I could be wrong but I thought Scholes had already announced his retirement before the tournament. Even if he hadn't, retiring because you had to play 4 games out of position is a tad petulant. Someone like Steven Gerrard would have retired a long time ago if he had that attitude.

Edit / posted before I saw the previous post

 

[sledger]

Nah sorry the Scholes on the left thing sees a lot of revisionism these days. Yes he shouldn't have been played there but based on the prior season he didn't deserve to be one of two central midfielders. And nobody, not even Grecian, was onto Gerrard and Lampard being incompatible, and Gerrard had played deep all season.

It is in a sense similar to the current situation IMO. Scholes was played there because the other option was someone else (Joe Cole?) playing wide left and Scholes sitting on the bench. Much like it would have been best doing with Rooney on Saturday.

Also, I could be wrong but I thought Scholes had already announced his retirement before the tournament. Even if he hadn't, retiring because you had to play 4 games out of position is a tad petulant. Someone like Steven Gerrard would have retired a long time ago if he had that attitude.

Edit / posted before I saw the previous post

Haha, are you agreeing with me or arguing with me? I can't quite tell...

 

[Tangles]

Sturrridge and Sterling played well and certainly started very well. An out of position and form Rooney still supplied the first goal. None of the subs did much so dropping him doesn't make sense. The other 2 teams will be weaker than Italy so rather than play him on the wing play a 2nd striker. Rooney does seem to have declined in his play and touch in recent years. While not a big fan of him in midfield I'm not sure the other options are better.

Moving Scholes for Lampard didn't need hindsight. Sven gave in to the media or was worse than I give him credit for.