• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Your ATG team pace bowling trio

Who do you select in your all-time side?

  • Total voters
    69
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
OverratedSanity said:
I disagree on the basis of my opinion that Imran as a bowler would win close to as many games in those teams as Marshall and McGrath did anyway.
Click to expand...
Based on what?

Imran's status is heavily based on his record at home.
Between '76 and '84 he averaged 27 in Australia with a strike rate of almost 64.
In England a strike rate of 58, In India an average of 28 with a strike rate of 61, and that's from '79 to '87.

We live to make these statements, but Imran wasn't by any measure a top tier pacer, and was never seen as such even when he played.

He's not in the GOAT conversation anywhere, and no one thinks he's in the same conversation as McGrath as a bowler, so no I don't think he can replace any of them.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
Thala_0710 said:
If you run the same for all time, Imran doesn't make the top 20, despite some others playing in a more batting friendly era too. Hence I can't have him in my AT XI as one of the 3 primary pacers.
Click to expand...
That's the thing, he didn't play in a flat batting era, and it's claimed that Pakistan was one of the harder places to bowl.

So unless they are playing every game in 1980's Pakistan, how is among the best candidates?
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
Thala_0710 said:
The thing is others have better and more consistent performances. Marshall and Hadlee have the same/more no of 5fers/10fers as Imran does, while the others have simply played less games.
No Ambrose isn't ATG in Pak, but in this list it's not really the case. Even if you look at WPM, SRs etc, Imran is quite low in the list. If you go series by series performances, almost everyone has good performances in multiple nations but the really top guys are consistent throughout.
Even with all this, I keep Imran in my top 10 bowlers of all time, but there's a big gap between him and the top 4/5 guys especially, which is why I can't have him as one of the 3 front line pacers in my AT XI.
Click to expand...
When you point out his record it's called analysis by check list. Literally every great bowler has great series everywhere, what Imran lacked was consistency. And that's what the others were far better at and have to rated higher for.

And yes, I think there's a gap between him and the top 5 pacers, and as you say, a relatively large one at that.
 
ataraxia

ataraxia

International Coach
Beginning to come round to Pollock over Marshall in my AT team tbh. Not sure the overstated bowling difference is worth 10 runs a match. You've got Imran and Hadlee already: why do you need another great pacer? It's similar to how I have Simpson over Barry in my 3rd XI.
 
S

Swamp Witch Hattie

U19 12th Man
ataraxia said:
Beginning to come round to Pollock over Marshall in my AT team tbh. Not sure the overstated bowling difference is worth 10 runs a match. You've got Imran and Hadlee already: why do you need another great pacer? It's similar to how I have Simpson over Barry in my 3rd XI.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, ataraxia, when you created this thread, you never included Pollock as an option. You might have thought that he would automatically be included as he has "Poll" in his name. What you could do is change your Marshall vote to Wasim. As @kyear2 has said, you really shouldn't have three pacers from the same era in your attack, and even though Wasim overlapped Hadlee and Imran, he went on a decade beyond them so you would be getting the requisite era variation unlike with Marshall. Also, with Wasim, you would be getting left-arm variation unlike with Marshall, and as kyear2 has said, with Wasim, you would be getting a fantastic old-ball bowler. Not to mention those vital extra lower-order runs. You might get a bit of a rise out of kyear2 as well which would be an added bonus! ;)
 
ataraxia

ataraxia

International Coach
Swamp Witch Hattie said:
Unfortunately, ataraxia, when you created this thread, you never included Pollock as an option. You might have thought that he would automatically be included as he has "Poll" in his name. What you could do is change your Marshall vote to Wasim. As @kyear2 has said, you really shouldn't have three pacers from the same era in your attack, and even though Wasim overlapped Hadlee and Imran, he went on a decade beyond them so you would be getting the requisite era variation unlike with Marshall. Also, with Wasim, you would be getting left-arm variation unlike with Marshall, and as kyear2 has said, with Wasim, you would be getting a fantastic old-ball bowler. Not to mention those vital extra lower-order runs. You might get a bit of a rise out of kyear2 as well which would be an added bonus! ;)
Click to expand...
That's an excellent idea for too many reasons to list.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
kyear2 said:
Based on what?

Imran's status is heavily based on his record at home.
Between '76 and '84 he averaged 27 in Australia with a strike rate of almost 64.
In England a strike rate of 58, In India an average of 28 with a strike rate of 61, and that's from '79 to '87.
Click to expand...
In England his SR in that period is 49, not 58. To compare Steyn has a SR in England of 56, Ambrose 55, Hadlee of 58.

McGrath has a SR of 63 in SA, 63 in Pak and 64 in SL. Is he disqualified?

Ambrose has a SR of 60 in Pakistan, 57 in SA and nearly 56 at HOME.

We know you are biased against Imran and simply don't hide it well.

Go back to falsifying ATG XIs
 
Last edited:
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
kyear2 said:
Literally every great bowler has great series everywhere, what Imran lacked was consistency. And that's what the others were far better at and have to rated higher for.
Click to expand...
Imran was incredibly consistent in his bowling peak. From 80 to 88 he had one series where he averaged more than 25.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top