Wisden's Cricketers of the Century

[Sanz]

1) Fair comment

2) Unfortunately misses the point that Dev's generation was 10 years before Warne's at least so we'll need another 10 years to see the results. The ECB Elite Wrist Spin Programme is looking promising.

Warnie is about to retire now and When Kapil retired, India already had established fast bowlers like Javagal Srinath in the national team for 2-3, Razdan came and Gone, Ankola gone due to injury, Wasan came and gone, Venky Prasad, Kuruvilla etc doing well in domestic circuit.

But I dont hear about one spinner who has come from Warnie's school of legspin, neither in Australia nor in England.

 

[marc71178]

Precisely why they say if Kapil was in the current era he would've been hailed as the best allrounder in the world.

Who says that?

Pollock for one is far better with bat and ball.

I heard of Kapil Dev's heroics from my grandpa, who was and still is an avid cricket fan. And 434 wickets is proof enough of his ability, just as 99.94 was of Bradman's.

Conveniently ignoring the average of Dev - a tad over 28 I believe? Perhaps one might say that is more proof of his ability and the 434 is the proof of the ability of his team-mates?

 

[marc71178]

There has never been so much competition among quicks in India. There are some uncapped guys who are looking good too.

If they're uncapped we cannot say anything about their ability.

Some uncapped players look great, then they get capped (G A Hick)

 

[Swervy]

Warnie is about to retire now and When Kapil retired, India already had established fast bowlers like Javagal Srinath in the national team for 2-3, Razdan came and Gone, Ankola gone due to injury, Wasan came and gone, Venky Prasad, Kuruvilla etc doing well in domestic circuit.

But I dont hear about one spinner who has come from Warnie's school of legspin, neither in Australia nor in England.

as discussed earlier, to find a world class leg spinner is a bit more difficult than finding run of the mill medium pacers as listed above

 

[Sanz]

so i guess its an insult when someone doesnt actually agree with what you are saying..

If you dont disgree with me it is fine but you mocking my statement about Kapil inspiring a generation in India was indeed insulting.

You have no idea about Kapils' influence on Indian Cricket.

Since we are talking about insult, here is the first one, Kapil didn't have to take drugs to impprove his performance.

 

[Sehwag309]

You will have to define your definition of World for me. I hope it does not start at England and end there. Because I have not seen Warnie's impact in India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, West Indies, Bangladesh, South Africa etc. etc.

PS :- I am not saying that Warnie is not a great bowler or something, But just that he has inspired a couple of people to take up leg spin, isn't good enough reason for me to be included in top 5 cricketers of the Century.

Its like one of those when Americans say "World" in everything

 

[Neil Pickup]

Some interesting stats...

Muralitharan: 521 in 89 @ 5.85 per match
Walsh: 519 in 132 @ 3.93
Warne: 517 in 110 @ 4.70
Kapil Dev: 434 in 131 @ 3.31
Hadlee: 431 in 86 @ 5.01
McGrath: 430 in 95 @ 4.53
Wasim: 414 in 104 @ 3.98
Ambrose: 405 in 98 @ 4.13
Kumble: 397 in 84 @ 4.72
Botham: 383 in 102 @ 3.75
Marshall: 376 in 81 @ 4.64
Waqar: 373 in 87 @ 4.26
Imran: 362 in 88 @ 4.11
Lillee: 355 in 70 @ 5.07
Pollock: 339 in 83 @ 4.08
Donald: 330 in 72 @ 4.58
Willis: 325 in 90 @ 3.61
Gibbs: 309 in 79 @ 3.91
Trueman: 307 in 67 @ 4.58

The fact that Kapil's - and Willis' - is so low says a little, I think.

 

[Swervy]

If you dont disgree with me it is fine but you mocking my statement about Kapil inspiring a generation in India was indeed insulting.

You have no idea about Kapils' influence on Indian Cricket.

Since we are talking about insult, here is the first one, Kapil didn't have to take drugs to impprove his performance.

hardly an insult...and anyway..you try finding the proof that Warne took what he did to mask any kind of performance enhancing drug

 

[marc71178]

Since we are talking about insult, here is the first one, Kapil didn't have to take drugs to impprove his performance.

How many times does it have to be said?

If you're losing, don't try and accuse Warne of performance-enhancing drugs - it removes all credibility from any prior statement.

 

[Sanz]

as discussed earlier, to find a world class leg spinner is a bit more difficult than finding run of the mill medium pacers as listed above

Forget about being world class, Why dont you name some ordinary leg spinners in Australia and England who have a decent chance of making it to the national side in next couple of years.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Warnie is about to retire now and When Kapil retired, India already had established fast bowlers like Javagal Srinath in the national team for 2-3, Razdan came and Gone, Ankola gone due to injury, Wasan came and gone, Venky Prasad, Kuruvilla etc doing well in domestic circuit.

But I dont hear about one spinner who has come from Warnie's school of legspin, neither in Australia nor in England.

We have a huge swathe of wrist spinners at the Under 19 level and below. Michael Munday and Mark Lawson are at present the best.

Like I said, Warne's influence will not be obvious now as he 'came' ten years after Dev. That and the fact that seamers are far more in number than wristies...

 

[chicane]

Who says that?

Pollock for one is far better with bat and ball.

OK fine.

Conveniently ignoring the average of Dev - a tad over 28 I believe? Perhaps one might say that is more proof of his ability and the 434 is the proof of the ability of his team-mates?

And you are conveniently ignoring the significance of 434 wickets, the significance that it was a world record for a number of years, the significance that it was an Indian quick in a team full of spinners on spinner-friendly tracks at home.

 

[Sanz]

The fact that Kapil's - and Willis' - is so low says a little, I think.

The fact that Kapil hardly bowled in last 10-15 test matches say a lot (remember the Kumble-Raju-chauhan era ? )

 

[Swervy]

Forget about being world class, Why dont you name some ordinary leg spinners in Australia and England who have a decent chance of making it to the national side in next couple of years.

to be honest i think you have missed the point of what was said about 100 posts ago

 

[Ford_GTHO351]

Sorry mate, IMO Australian dominance actually started from 1999 and not 1992. To give Warnie credit for this will be unfair to Mark Taylor and Other Australian Cricketers.

Well Warne has played a part in Australia's dominace of cricket, though of course there have been other Australian cricketers who have also been instremntal in Australia's success like Allan Border who actually had laied the platforms (ever since Australia's 1987 World Cup victory) for Australian domination.

 

[a massive zebra]

How many times does it have to be said?

If you're losing, don't try and accuse Warne of performance-enhancing drugs - it removes all credibility from any prior statement.

Since when was he losing?

 

[Sanz]

How many times does it have to be said?

If you're losing, don't try and accuse Warne of performance-enhancing drugs - it removes all credibility from any prior statement.

I am not losing, it's just an example of what might follow.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Forget about being world class, Why dont you name some ordinary leg spinners in Australia and England who have a decent chance of making it to the national side in next couple of years.

See above post for England.

As for Australia.. Cam White and Beau Casson for two - can't go further as my Aussie domestic knowledge is as poor as my knowledge of any nation other than England's domestic structure!

 

[chicane]

If they're uncapped we cannot say anything about their ability.

They are just looking good (i.e promising) and are good prospects.

Some uncapped players look great, then they get capped (G A Hick)

So what? That doesn't mean these guys are gonna turn out like Hick.

 

[Swervy]

OK fine.


And you are conveniently ignoring the significance of 434 wickets, the significance that it was a world record for a number of years, the significance that it was an Indian quick in a team full of spinners on spinner-friendly tracks at home.

he was hardly crash hot away from home either 66 tests 215 wickets at almost 33 a wicket with a SR (and for an opening bowler this is pretty poor) of one wicket every 12 overs