Why does South Africa never produce any good spinners?

[Richard]

No-one remembers Hugh Tayfield evidently. One of the best fingerspinners of the 1930-1970 era.

Does anyone know, incidentally, when pitch-covering was introduced in South Africa? Guess Kev would be the best bet again there?

 

[Goughy]

No-one remembers Hugh Tayfield evidently. One of the best fingerspinners of the 1930-1970 era.

Does anyone know, incidentally, when pitch-covering was introduced in South Africa? Guess Kev would be the best bet again there?

No idea TBH, sorry

 

[social]

But a lack of role models has a lot to do with that. In India one just had to visit any school, college or club nets in the seventies and eighties to see more spinners than fatser bowlers at practice. They all wanted to emulate the Bedis, Prasannas, Chandras, Venkats, Doshis etc.

Now you see so many medium pacers, many of them left handed.

It is not a chance that so many of the Indians playing for other countries have been spinners (of whatever level of competence).

Good point - spinning was dead in Oz until Warne came through.

 

[Matt79]

No-one remembers Hugh Tayfield evidently. One of the best fingerspinners of the 1930-1970 era.

Does anyone know, incidentally, when pitch-covering was introduced in South Africa? Guess Kev would be the best bet again there?

Yeah, Faulkner and Vogler etc were pretty good too.

Meanwhile, since the fall of the Kaiser...

 

[LA ICE-E]

Well why not?

I know about the SA Test pitches, but what are they like at FC level? Similar to the Test ones? Perhaps captaincy at club level and FC level and if they are used in a defensive/negative role and if they start to bowl in attacking manner and give it some air they could end up being carted and therefore the captain loses confidence and takes them and hardly bowls. Of course I could be completely wrong so if Gough or Hingston want to correct me I won't be offended.

I ask after reading that Graeme Smith said they need to produce a top quality spinner to win a WC.

They made a deal with india and pakistan which will let their spinners go over there and play and learn to spin while in return indians and pakistanis will get to come to south africa and learn to play bouncers etc

 

[Richard]

Yeah, Faulkner and Vogler etc were pretty good too.

Schwarz, Vogler, Faulkner and to a lesser extent White were indeed not bad (and the thing that put South Africa on the cricket map) but they were of course in the 1900-1930 era.

 

[Richard]

Good point - spinning was dead in Oz until Warne came through.

No, there just wasn't anyone who was very good at it. And it's quite conceivable that that'll happen again for another good few years as of now.

 

[Matt79]

Social's point is that it wasn't a discipline that interested anyone much either. Whereas I can assure you the number of kids who are keen to bowl leg-spin due solely to Warne is quite a large number. Warne transformed it from a marginal activity for them what couldn't bowl fast to something lots of young cricketers want to try and emulate.

He's also left a legacy in the minds of selectors and coaches around the country that it will be many years before any team would consider fielding a team without a spinner.

 

[Matt79]

Schwarz, Vogler, Faulkner and to a lesser extent White were indeed not bad (and the thing that put South Africa on the cricket map) but they were of course in the 1900-1930 era.

Yep, and therefore only slightly more ancient history than Tayfield.

 

[Richard]

Well they were all wristspinners, so they're not really important anyway.

The point is that good fingerspinners around The World and especially at the South African Test grounds are ancient history. It's no longer something that can be bowled to great affect in most places, and hasn't been since covered pitches.

 

[Matt79]

Well they were all wristspinners, so they're not really important anyway.

The point is that good fingerspinners around The World and especially at the South African Test grounds are ancient history. It's no longer something that can be bowled to great affect in most places, and hasn't been since covered pitches.

When did that become "the point". There's been no mention of wrist-vs-finger spin in this thread at all, so far as I've noticed. How is the distinction relevant to the topic of discussion of why South Africa hasn't produced any great spin (finger or wrist) bowlers recently? If you're being sarcastic, I'm afraid its to obtruse for me to grasp.

And I'd certainly take issue with the argument that there's no role for finger-spinners anymore. I'd agree that other things being equal, a good wrist-spinner is a bigger asset than a good finger-spinner, but there have been enough examples of finger-spinners of recent times who have had success to suggest there's still a role for them. And not just on freakish pitches custom made for them either. It probably is the case that conditions favouring finger-spin in particular aren't as common since pitches began to be covered, but that's a vastly different thing from saying they can't be effective in "most places".

 

[Richard]

When did that become "the point". There's been no mention of wrist-vs-finger spin in this thread at all, so far as I've noticed. How is the distinction relevant to the topic of discussion of why South Africa hasn't produced any great spin (finger or wrist) bowlers recently? If you're being sarcastic, I'm afraid its to obtruse for me to grasp.

What I meant was that if Tayfield played today he'd be not-much. The same could not be said of Schwarz, Faulkner, etc. But since them there have been no South African wristspinners of any note.

And I'd certainly take issue with the argument that there's no role for finger-spinners anymore. I'd agree that other things being equal, a good wrist-spinner is a bigger asset than a good finger-spinner, but there have been enough examples of finger-spinners of recent times who have had success to suggest there's still a role for them. And not just on freakish pitches custom made for them either. It probably is the case that conditions favouring finger-spin in particular aren't as common since pitches began to be covered, but that's a vastly different thing from saying they can't be effective in "most places".

It's not. Of course there's still a role in the game for fingerspinners, but you simply can't miss the fact that most grounds outside the subcontinent (and more than some realise inside the subcontinent too) don't offer sufficient assistance for fingerspin for such bowlers to be any real use.

Because fingerspinners invariably need a helpful pitch in order to be effective. If the pitch is not helpful, they aren't. And a fingerspin-friendly Test pitch in, say, England, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and Pakistan is extremely rare. Or, for that matter, in Barbados or Mohali. About the only country where you can go and be almost certain there'll be a role for a good fingerspinner is Sri Lanka.