Who is the most skillful bowler?

[subshakerz]

What does this even mean?

And I remember wasim saying that Dravid 99 was one of his perfect executions. So I guess he did want to get him out bowled.

Wasim generally speaking didn't read bats for their weaknesses and bowl based on that. He did for a few but only after learning his lessons, like he wouldn't bowl wide to Jayasuria after getting smacked before that.

Generally, he would rely on his ability to produce swing going both ways and try variations of that to get the bats out.

And don't get me wrong, 99 Dravid was excellent.

 

[smash84]

Wasim generally speaking didn't read bats for their weaknesses and bowl based on that. He did for a few but only after learning his lessons, like he wouldn't bowl wide to Jayasuria after getting smacked before that.

Is that why he was named the toughest bowler to face by most of his contemporaries? So doesn't that mean he was better at swing?

Besides, I pointed out that he was better at swinging the ball than Bumrah and Marshall. Not that he was better at getting batsmen out. They are two different things.

 

[subshakerz]

Is that why he was named the toughest bowler to face by most of his contemporaries? So doesn't that mean he was better at swing?

Because of his versatality. Hm everyone always said he could bowl six different deliveries in a over. Kra said he could get him out with a delivery at any stage. Few if any gave him credit for bowling smarts.

Besides, I pointed out that he was better at swinging the ball than Bumrah and Marshall. Not that he was better at getting batsmen out. They are two different things.

Ok he was more gifted at swinging in having more tools (though not sure what Bumrah is lacking to be honest). But overall skill means intelligence in using that swing and he is behind them.

 

[smash84]

Ok he was more gifted at swinging in having more tools (though not sure what Bumrah is lacking to be honest). But overall skill means intelligence in using that swing and he is behind them.

This is exactly what I was talking about. You pointed out Marshall and Bumrah specifically for swing. I just thought that was patently incorrect and should point it out.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Barnes combined Hadlee’s ability to swing and seam the ball with Murali’s ability to spin the ball and had serious pace and bounce iirc

 

[Johan]

Barnes combined Hadlee’s ability to swing and seam the ball with Murali’s ability to spin the ball iirc

Gosh how do your friends tolerate you? You're insufferable.

 

[smash84]

Always a good reminder how ridiculously Wasim could swing the ball

 

[subshakerz]

This is exactly what I was talking about. You pointed out Marshall and Bumrah specifically for swing. I just thought that was patently incorrect and should point it out.

Yeah they are more skilled at swing because they combine tools (Wasim maybe having more talent) with more brains.

 

[Johan]

So you mean wasim was stupidly swinging it around?

not sure about Wasim stupidly swinging it around but they do say Imran was stupidly swinging it around all the time in England

 

[smash84]

Yeah they are more skilled at swing because they combine tools (Wasim maybe having more talent) with more brains.

Marshall could not swing the ball more than Wasim nor could he do it more often than Wasim. So how was he better at swing than Wasim?

He was just better at taking wickets regardless of whether he swung the ball or not. Marshall was never known for his swing. So.....just drop it?

 

[smash84]

not sure about Wasim stupidly swinging it around but they do say Imran was stupidly swinging it around all the time in England

Imran wasn't stupidly swinging it around. Seems like he was quite strategic about it . A lot of his swinging was happening in the upper echelons of society

 

[Arachnödouche2.0]

Seen Wasim make the ball change directions in the air twice in the same delivery. Not sure he himself could tell how he did that but he did it often enough for there to be some method to the madness. Surely has to be the holy grail of seam bowling skillwise.

 

[subshakerz]

Marshall could not swing the ball more than Wasim nor could he do it more often than Wasim. So how was he better at swing than Wasim?

He was just better at taking wickets regardless of whether he swung the ball or not. Marshall was never known for his swing. So.....just drop it?

The question wasn't whether he could swing the ball more but if he was more skilled at it. Skill implies both ability and intelligence in using it.

 

[smash84]

The question wasn't whether he could swing the ball more but if he was more skilled at it. Skill implies both ability and intelligence in using it.

Ok, so according to you, somebody who can only swing the ball 1 millimetre which is barely even perceptible, would be more skilled at swing than somebody who can hoop it around corners if they can use it? So basically McGrath is better at swing than Wasim?

 

[subshakerz]

Ok, so according to you, somebody who can only swing the ball 1 millimetre which is barely even perceptible, would be more skilled at swing than somebody who can hoop it around corners if they can use it? So basically McGrath is better at swing than Wasim?

No you need swing mastery of those abilities to be part of the conversation for most skilled swinger. Then I select those most capable of getting bats out using that elite toolbox. Makes sense?

 

[kyear2]

Wow
is he the only cricketer who played cricket till the age of 50 ?

Speaks quite a bit to the opposition doesn't it

 

[smash84]

No you need swing mastery of those abilities to be part of the conversation for most skilled swinger. Then I select those most capable of getting bats out using that elite toolbox. Makes sense?

No, to me being able to swing the ball is a different skill from being able to get them out.

 

[kyear2]

Marshall and Bumrah

Marshall didn't have reverse, Bumrah lacks that extra pace and also the ability to be the enforcer.

Which is the complete package would I guess depend on which one rates more highly.

Wasim deserves a mention, but......

 

[subshakerz]

Marshall didn't have reverse, Bumrah lacks that extra pace and also the ability to be the enforcer.

Which is the complete package would I guess depend on which one rates more highly.

Wasim deserves a mention, but......

Bumrah and Wasim are hardly different in pace.

 

[subshakerz]

No, to me being able to swing the ball is a different skill from being able to get them out.

Being able to figure out how to get a bat out is a skill, no? Just in this case they are using swing to do it.