Who Is The Best English Batsman of All-Time?

[marc71178]

I've never claimed to know as much about Flintoff as he does in anything other than the deliveries he's bowled.
And sorry, the fact is, I do.

So you know on which balls he's tried something a bit different, and on which balls he's been slightly off balance when delivering do you?

How do you do that without actually being him?

 

[Anil]

How do you know it's superficial?

'cuz you're not flintoff, not his coach, not his teammate, not his sibling, not his parent, not his relative, not a bowling expert, not a cricket expert....from what i have seen on cw, you're just a kid with a reasonable brain unfortunately enveloped by a super-size ego....

 

[Richard]

Why does it not? Who are you to say his opinion doesn't matter?

I'm suggesting the possibility - whether anyone else agrees is up to anyone who may read it.
If you really think there's not enormous prejudice, formed without reasonable assessment, I find you blinkered on the subject.

In which case I find it totally inconceivable that you've spoken to that person in the last couple of months.

If you're talking about Rich - no, I haven't, not at length.
Maybe I'd better try to, eh?

 

[Richard]

You have watched the ball, but know nothing about the bowler.

The bowler has bowled the ball - hence I know a lot about the bowler.

 

[Richard]

So you know on which balls he's tried something a bit different, and on which balls he's been slightly off balance when delivering do you?

How do you do that without actually being him?

Why does that matter, more to the point?
Why does it alter my ability to watch what's coming out of the hand?

 

[Richard]

'cuz you're not flintoff, not his coach, not his teammate, not his sibling, not his parent, not his relative, not a bowling expert, not a cricket expert....from what i have seen on cw, you're just a kid with a reasonable brain unfortunately enveloped by a super-size ego....

I believe I know what I'm on about, yes.
I also believe I know more about cricket than most people - and so do quite a few on this board.
I know plenty about Flintoff's bowling, let me assure you of that.
I know enough to realise that there has been no real difference in what he's bowling, and I also know (as anyone who takes a quick look would) when the figures started to change.

 

[marc71178]

If you're talking about Rich - no, I haven't, not at length.
Maybe I'd better try to, eh?

Even if you did and he told you what he's told me, you'd still tell him you know better than he does.

 

[marc71178]

The bowler has bowled the ball - hence I know a lot about the bowler.

No, you know about the outcome of the ball, you know nothing about the bowler.

 

[marc71178]

I know enough to realise that there has been no real difference in what he's bowling, and I also know (as anyone who takes a quick look would) when the figures started to change.

So you ignore the fact that he himself has said something about the way he's been bowling, and you ignore the people on here who know about biomechanics etc (re muscle memory) - and just say you know more than them.

 

[Richard]

No, you know about the outcome of the ball, you know nothing about the bowler.

Er - the bowler has bowled the ball.
If you know about the delivery and many others then you know about the bowler.
Simple as.
Otherwise no-one would ever be allowed to comment on a bowler.

 

[Richard]

So you ignore the fact that he himself has said something about the way he's been bowling, and you ignore the people on here who know about biomechanics etc (re muscle memory) - and just say you know more than them.

Nope, I say nothing of the sort - I say the biomechanics and psychology stuff doesn't matter.

 

[marc71178]

How do you know they don't matter?

Even though someone who knows about it has mentioned "muscle memory" taking a while to sink in - that doesn't matter because you know more than the bowler does about what he's doing.

 

[Anil]

I also believe I know more about cricket than most people - and so do quite a few on this board.

that ridiculous assertion illustrates what i meant....super-size ego...

 

[Swervy]

Well if you think a 15-year-old who's been "through the mill" of God-knows-what (read Bob Appleyard's biography, for instance) has less "life experience" than a 32-year-old who's been mollycoddled all his days, you're equally delusional.
Of course experience of cricket comes largely down to how much of it you've watched - the more you've watched, the more situations you've seen, the more diversity you've gained knowledge of... I'd have thought that was incredibly obvious.
Age does not equal experience, in any field, there are many, many other factors - including perceptiveness and memory in no small measure.

mollycoddled...never been called that before....especially by some (and I am taking a guess here) teenager barely out of school who appears to spend most of his time studying videos of Flintoff, or counting the number of times a ball spins in its flight or counting the number of lucky wickets McGrath has had etc.

What the hell has Appleyard got to do with anything anyway?

What you dont seem to get is that teenagers tend to go through the 'know it all ' phase....I did..my mates did...people who I have worked with have as well (obviously not all of them, but a lot do)....you get older and look back on mistakes you have made (and beleive me Richard, you probably have made some),and realsie you have learnt from those mistakes.

If you dont (and for you to learn you need to acknowledge the mistakes first), I would take a guess that by the time you are in your mid 20's or so, people really just wont get a damn about what you say.

I just really hope that you are only like this on here and not in real life

Mollycoddled indeed.....if only you knew the half of it.

 

[Anil]

Mollycoddled indeed.....if only you knew the half of it.

oh...after "studying" and "analysing" your posts on cw, he probably knows more about you than you do...

 

[Swervy]

oh...after "studying" and "analysing" your posts on cw, he probably knows more about you than you do...

 

[Richard]

that ridiculous assertion illustrates what i meant....super-size ego...

Not ridiculous at all - just not conforming to modest self-affacing normality.

 

[Richard]

mollycoddled...never been called that before....especially by some (and I am taking a guess here) teenager barely out of school who appears to spend most of his time studying videos of Flintoff, or counting the number of times a ball spins in its flight or counting the number of lucky wickets McGrath has had etc.

What the hell has Appleyard got to do with anything anyway?

What you dont seem to get is that teenagers tend to go through the 'know it all ' phase....I did..my mates did...people who I have worked with have as well (obviously not all of them, but a lot do)....you get older and look back on mistakes you have made (and beleive me Richard, you probably have made some),and realsie you have learnt from those mistakes.

If you dont (and for you to learn you need to acknowledge the mistakes first), I would take a guess that by the time you are in your mid 20's or so, people really just wont get a damn about what you say.

I just really hope that you are only like this on here and not in real life

Mollycoddled indeed.....if only you knew the half of it.

Err... I was calling you mollycoddled?

No.

It was hypothetical; I was referring neither to you nor myself (indeed I'd freely admit to being mollycoddled more than most myself - I've had a great life so far and I'm not going to pretend otherwise), I was simply pointing-out that you cannot by any stretch of the imagination use the age=experience argument, because it just doesn't hold much water.

 

[Richard]

How do you know they don't matter?

Even though someone who knows about it has mentioned "muscle memory" taking a while to sink in - that doesn't matter because you know more than the bowler does about what he's doing.

I know equally about what he's bowling, yes.
And if it appears that muscle-memory is having an impact, I'll listen to what someone who knows has to say about it.
Otherwise I'll just listen vaguely then realise it's irrelevant.

 

[marc71178]

And if it appears that muscle-memory is having an impact, I'll listen to what someone who knows has to say about it.

Even though you've ignored it in the past?