They have also had the greatest 7' plus bowler of all timeIt says in the opening post that Pakistan have had many great fast bowlers. Not sure that’s true. Three greats and a nearly man.
Shows how much just having a couple of good players can skew perception. Their fast bowling depth has been abysmal over their history. They excell at producing guys who look good but don't have the figures (there's half a dozen running around domestically right now). And prior to Imran they didn't even have that. It may be the pitches, but the 27-29 averaging guys are conspicuously absent.It says in the opening post that Pakistan have had many great fast bowlers. Not sure that’s true. Three greats and a nearly man.
South Africa have produced more in the thirty years since readmission. Fazal was an out-and-out medium pacer by today's standards who couldn't perform off matting or very soft pitches (he averaged 38 on turf).
There are practically no bowlers with a McDermott or Gillespie-like record. It's the two Ws and Imran, Shoaib when he wasn't injured, Asif and then nothing but a load of mainly mediocre to crap, any better ones completely lacking staying power. People talk like they're the eighties Windies, yet they've never had demonstrable depth comparable to India's over the past few years.
We can see if Shaheen and some of the other promising ones can overcome history, but overcoming is the word.
They couldn'tWhy would you want to bowl like mcdermott when you can bowl like imran waqar or wasim
Who?People talk like they're the eighties Windies,
Mohammad Asif right now ?Pakistan has a stupid number of pace bowlers that took 50 wickets at an average of 25 or less but then fizzled out quickly. The supply chain works and this is where the reputation comes from.
They don't though. Going by your stated criteria excepting Khan Mohammad (again, out and out medium pacer by today's standard), it's only Shabbir, who was a chucker, and Abbas, who post-dates when I first noticed the trend of praising Pakistan for their supposed ability to produce fast bowlers. Otherwise we fall back on names previously mentioned (Imran, two Ws, Shoaib, Asif).Pakistan has a stupid number of pace bowlers that took 50 wickets at an average of 25 or less but then fizzled out quickly. The supply chain works and this is where the reputation comes from.
I dunno about the 50 @ 25 but they definitely produce fast bowlers who bowl fast and look exciting and kinda pass the eye test of being potentially great bowlers. So, yeah, I think the narrative that Pak produces great fast bowlers is exaggerated. But they do produce an awful lot of fast bowlers who look like they can be great bowlers and to that extent, their reputation as a place that keeps producing great fast bowling talent is justified IMHO.Pakistan has a stupid number of pace bowlers that took 50 wickets at an average of 25 or less but then fizzled out quickly. The supply chain works and this is where the reputation comes from.
Yeah. Pak's reputation is for producing pace bowling talent, not necessarily greats. And they did produce talent regularly. But the conversion rate into great level dropped off.I dunno about the 50 @ 25 but they definitely produce fast bowlers who bowl fast and look exciting and kinda pass the eye test of being potentially great bowlers. So, yeah, I think the narrative that Pak produces great fast bowlers is exaggerated. But they do produce an awful lot of fast bowlers who look like they can be great bowlers and to that extent, their reputation as a place that keeps producing great fast bowling talent is justified IMHO.
Outstanding performance from both his knees.Saqlain played through ****ed knees and has spells in India and even Australia that Swann never matched.
Yeah. Pak's reputation is for producing pace bowling talent, not necessarily greats. And they did produce talent regularly. But the conversion rate into great level dropped off.
After the 2Ws, they had:
- Mohd Zahid, took a tenfer in his first test and seemed the fastest Pak pacer ever
- Shoaib Akthar
- Mohd Sami, who took a fifer in his first test and bowled 90 plus regularly, but never delivered after due to lack of bowling intelligence
- Mohd Asif
- Mohd Amir, who before his ban was touching 90mph and seemed a pace prodigy
- Junaid Khan, who seemed to have good pace and potential until getting injured
- Mohd Abbas
- Shaheen Afridi
- Nasir Shah
You are really overrating Fazal here.Fazal Mahmood was up there with the other three greats
Three to four ATG fast bowlers isn’t bad at all. England has provided one in that time frame and three very good but not ATG bowlers (Botham, Willis, Anderson).
Only Aus and Windies compare