Who has a better test bowling attack ?

[Richard]

Oh "you don't think" - conclusive proof for me.

You cannot prove it has no effect, and fail to see how it can't - if the ball is spinning into the wind then that wind will slow it - likewise if spinning with, then the wind will increase it.

Thing is, spin is not in one direction - it is circular.
Of course wind can affect accelleration\decelleration in a linear direction, and also loop and dip or otherwse. But I don't see how it's likely to affect revolution about an axis.
And I can prove whether it affects how quickly revolution about an axis slows down, and I'll do it as soon as I can! By trying bowling a ball into and down a strong wind then in calm conditions. Whether you choose to believe me is another matter!

 

[Richard]

This is from Bob woolmers website about Tariq Mahmood (murali clone).

Tariq is working hard but has not had to change his action but is limited in his use of the Doosra which is similar as Murali's. Umar gul is off to see a back specialist as most of the treatment and rest has not worked.

BW Bob

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Tariq will not be able to bowl the doosra just like murali. Turns it more than murali though.

Crikey, has he got a double-jointed wrist too?
And is he anywhere near as accurate as Murali? If he's just as wayward as a normal wristspinner, though, he's not likely to amount to much more than MacGill or the like.

 

[marc71178]

Thing is, spin is not in one direction - it is circular.

The ball has a seam - that will be affected by the wind.

 

[Richard]

What about the seam is affected by the wind?

 

[marc71178]

It'll change the rotation of the ball.

 

[Swervy]

Thing is, spin is not in one direction - it is circular.
Of course wind can affect accelleration\decelleration in a linear direction, and also loop and dip or otherwse. But I don't see how it's likely to affect revolution about an axis.
And I can prove whether it affects how quickly revolution about an axis slows down, and I'll do it as soon as I can! By trying bowling a ball into and down a strong wind then in calm conditions. Whether you choose to believe me is another matter!

the problem with all this Richard is how unscientific all this is...to be honest this all looks like the type of experiement they would have on Blue peter or on 'Why Dont YOu...' during the summer holidays to keep a bunch of school kids busy for half an hour during the summer holidays.

 

[Richard]

It'll change the rotation of the ball.

How?

 

[Richard]

the problem with all this Richard is how unscientific all this is...to be honest this all looks like the type of experiement they would have on Blue peter or on 'Why Dont YOu...' during the summer holidays to keep a bunch of school kids busy for half an hour during the summer holidays.

How on Earth is it unscientific?
It's about the best any ameteur could do.
It's perfectly good enough if you ask me, otherwise I wouldn't bother doing it.

 

[Swervy]

How on Earth is it unscientific?
It's about the best any ameteur could do.
It's perfectly good enough if you ask me, otherwise I wouldn't bother doing it.

I dont like coming over all academic, but as a part of my degree (Astrophysics of all things), I had to do several modules on what is known as 'Instrumentation' which basically is how to measure data of whatever source and recognise sources of errors in the measurements and measuring those errors etc...for example (and its a very simple example) to measure an approx 10cm long piece of paper. Sounds easy...get a ruler...but inherent in the measurement are at least two errors which affect the measurement...inaccuracies in the ruler,and errors in how we read the ruler.

Now for this measuring the revolutions of a ball problem, we if I went to my tutor with your method, I probably would have been laughed out of the university. All the sources of error would just make your method invalid. You are quoting figures like 96 revs per second etc but in there you need to have an error measurement,and without really looking into it, I would guess that it is probably at least 20% either way...so Bowler A you measure at 100 revs per sec could actually been going at 80 or 120..bowler b you measure as 85 which means it could be plus or minus 17..which means it could be as much as 102...so the one you measured as more revs could actually be less...

and that is the problem.

To do this accurately you need to do it in controlled environment with very very fast film

 

[marc71178]

How?

Seeing as the ball isn't an exact sphere, the wind will take the seam.

 

[Muddaser]

Crikey, has he got a double-jointed wrist too?
And is he anywhere near as accurate as Murali? If he's just as wayward as a normal wristspinner, though, he's not likely to amount to much more than MacGill or the like.

Tariq turns the ball more than murali and is just as accurate. I watched him in action against India under 19 and west indies.

Has very good control and was highest wicket taker in the under 19 WC.

His doosra turned like a leg break but he wont be able to bowl it till ICC decide what to do about it in september.

Here is a clip of him in action alongwith mansoor amjad the leggie. Also Ali imran who bowls over 90mph in action around 30 secs in the clip. Great action.

Pakistan V India under 19 semi final

 

[Son Of Coco]

Seeing as the ball isn't an exact sphere, the wind will take the seam.

I think it's kind of along the lines of a right-handed outswing bowler bowling into a left to right breeze swinging the ball less is it not? And vice versa for and inswinger? If the wind had no effect on the seam then it'd be quite hard to swing it.

 

[hyounis786]

this is bw on latest news on tariq the whizkid

"Teriq is working hard but has not had to change his action but is limited in his use of the Doosra which is similar as Murali's"

 

[Richard]

I dont like coming over all academic, but as a part of my degree (Astrophysics of all things), I had to do several modules on what is known as 'Instrumentation' which basically is how to measure data of whatever source and recognise sources of errors in the measurements and measuring those errors etc...for example (and its a very simple example) to measure an approx 10cm long piece of paper. Sounds easy...get a ruler...but inherent in the measurement are at least two errors which affect the measurement...inaccuracies in the ruler,and errors in how we read the ruler.

Now for this measuring the revolutions of a ball problem, we if I went to my tutor with your method, I probably would have been laughed out of the university. All the sources of error would just make your method invalid. You are quoting figures like 96 revs per second etc but in there you need to have an error measurement,and without really looking into it, I would guess that it is probably at least 20% either way...so Bowler A you measure at 100 revs per sec could actually been going at 80 or 120..bowler b you measure as 85 which means it could be plus or minus 17..which means it could be as much as 102...so the one you measured as more revs could actually be less...

and that is the problem.

To do this accurately you need to do it in controlled environment with very very fast film

Well from my horribly inferior A-level physics (only got a D, too) I just about understand most of that. Error-measurement is very important.
But if this is true, then it means very conclusively that there's error in all calculations, and so hence as we can't do anything about this then we've got to accept that all measurements are as inaccurate as each other.

 

[Richard]

Seeing as the ball isn't an exact sphere, the wind will take the seam.

And the seam is so incredibly proud from the ball as to have a massive effect there!

 

[Richard]

Tariq turns the ball more than murali and is just as accurate. I watched him in action against India under 19 and west indies.

Has very good control and was highest wicket taker in the under 19 WC.

His doosra turned like a leg break but he wont be able to bowl it till ICC decide what to do about it in september.

Here is a clip of him in action alongwith mansoor amjad the leggie. Also Ali imran who bowls over 90mph in action around 30 secs in the clip. Great action.

Pakistan V India under 19 semi final

Sadly that link was invalid.
I really am amazed that anyone could possibly bowl like Murali (if he does, then he has to have a double-jointed wrist just like Murali - it's the only way to spin the ball that much with that sort of action).
And to control it like Mushtaq, Warne and the like is just amazing.
I hope for his sake he can sort-out his action. Be a terrible loss if he can't.

 

[marc71178]

And the seam is so incredibly proud from the ball as to have a massive effect there!

Depends which team's been cleaning it...

 

[Swervy]

Well from my horribly inferior A-level physics (only got a D, too) I just about understand most of that. Error-measurement is very important.
But if this is true, then it means very conclusively that there's error in all calculations, and so hence as we can't do anything about this then we've got to accept that all measurements are as inaccurate as each other.

of course there are errors in all measurements like this...but with proper equipment the errors can be reduced a hell of a lot.

Now the other day,they showed a ball travelling down the wicket with that 1000(?) frame per second..and even then it was nigh on impossible to know for certain what one revolution of the ball was....2 problems i could see happening...either 1) the seam for a spinner doesnt wobble,and so it was impossible to actually pick out a mark on the ball to take as a reference for counting 2) the seam does wobble and so it is even harder to see what one revolution of the ball constitutes, becuse even if there was a mark on the ball for reference, it is continually changing its position relative to the imaginary line drawn from the bowlers fingers to the point of pitching ie the axis around which the ball is revolving

Only with a specially marked ball with extremely fast film could you get an accurate enough figure to quote with regards to the revs per sec figure for each bowler for it to mean anything. (When we are talking about figures of 80 revs per sec,you cant really have much more than a 5% error..any more imakes it meaningless)

 

[Swervy]

Well from my horribly inferior A-level physics (only got a D, too) I just about understand most of that. Error-measurement is very important.
But if this is true, then it means very conclusively that there's error in all calculations, and so hence as we can't do anything about this then we've got to accept that all measurements are as inaccurate as each other.

and just one further point...the errors would increase the faster the ball turns..and so the assumption that the measurements are as inaccurate as each other isnt true

 

[Muddaser]

Sadly that link was invalid.
I really am amazed that anyone could possibly bowl like Murali (if he does, then he has to have a double-jointed wrist just like Murali - it's the only way to spin the ball that much with that sort of action).
And to control it like Mushtaq, Warne and the like is just amazing.
I hope for his sake he can sort-out his action. Be a terrible loss if he can't.

Tariq has been sent to australia to see who much he straightens his arm when bowling the doosra.

This is according to aaqib javed the A team coach.

BTW, the link works fine.

Pakistan V India under 19