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What if...?

James90

Cricketer Of The Year
The ball hit a helmet, left on the ground by the fielding side and then [the ball]went to the boundary?
 

Beleg

International Regular
Five runs will be awarded because the ball has hit the halmet first. That's my opinion though, can't be sure.
 

Mr Casson

Cricketer Of The Year
Beleg said:
Five runs will be awarded because the ball has hit the halmet first. That's my opinion though, can't be sure.
But is the ball dead after it hits a helmet?
 

Crazy Sam

International 12th Man
Law 41.2

Fielding the ball
A fielder may field the ball with any part of his person but if, while the ball is in play he wilfully fields it otherwise,
(a) the ball shall become dead and 5 penalty runs shall be awarded to the batting side. See Law 42.17 (Penalty runs). The ball shall not count as one of the over.

Law 42.17.c

(c) When 5 penalty runs are awarded to the batting side, under either Law 2.6 (Player returning without permission) or Law 41 (The fielder) or under 3, 4, 5, 9 or 13 above, then
(i) they shall be scored as penalty extras and shall be in addition to any other penalties.
(ii) they shall not be regarded as runs scored from either the immediately preceding delivery or the following delivery, and shall be in addition to any runs from those deliveries.
(iii) the batsmen shall not change ends solely by reason of the 5 run penalty.


I think that all means that only the 5 penalty runs are counted, because it is not counted as an actual ball in the over.
 

Mr Casson

Cricketer Of The Year
Crazy Sam said:
Law 41.2

Fielding the ball
A fielder may field the ball with any part of his person but if, while the ball is in play he wilfully fields it otherwise,
(a) the ball shall become dead and 5 penalty runs shall be awarded to the batting side. See Law 42.17 (Penalty runs). The ball shall not count as one of the over.

Law 42.17.c

(c) When 5 penalty runs are awarded to the batting side, under either Law 2.6 (Player returning without permission) or Law 41 (The fielder) or under 3, 4, 5, 9 or 13 above, then
(i) they shall be scored as penalty extras and shall be in addition to any other penalties.
(ii) they shall not be regarded as runs scored from either the immediately preceding delivery or the following delivery, and shall be in addition to any runs from those deliveries.
(iii) the batsmen shall not change ends solely by reason of the 5 run penalty.


I think that all means that only the 5 penalty runs are counted, because it is not counted as an actual ball in the over.
No I think it means that they would get the four as well, judging by Law 42.17c (ii).
 

Beleg

International Regular
'Sometimes fielders close to the bat wear helmets for safety. When not in use, the helmet (or any other loose equipment) may be placed on the field (usually behind the wicket-keeper, where it is unlikely to be hit by the ball). If any such loose fielding equipment is hit with the ball, five runs are scored, either to the batsman who hit the ball or as the appropriate form of byes. The ball is then considered dead and no further runs can be taken, nor can a batsman be run out'

Source: http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/hosking/cricket/explanation.htm#scoring

So yes, the ball would be considered dead and five runs would be awarded.
 

James90

Cricketer Of The Year
What if the batsman got a bottom edge, past the keeper and into the helmet, or the fielding side were forgetful and left the helmet near the bowler at the other end, the batsman creams a straight drive into the helmet. Does the batsman get 5 or does penalty runs get five?
 
Last edited:

Adamc

Cricketer Of The Year
James90 said:
What if the batsman got a bottom edge, past the keeper and into the helmet, or the fielding side were forgetful and left the helmet near the bowler at the other end, the batsman creams a straight drive into the helmet. Goes the batsman get 5 or does penalty runs get five?
It will just be 5 penalty runs (extras), as there is no way of asserting how many runs the batsman would have scored had the helmet not been there.
 

Beleg

International Regular
James,

the quote I posted shows pretty clearly that the position where the helmet is placed doesn't matter. As long as a live ball hits a helmet, whether inadvertantly or deliberately, runs are awarded. If the batsman touched it then the runs go to him otherwise they are awarded as byes/leg-byes.

I don't see where penalty runs come into play in this.
 

Adamc

Cricketer Of The Year
Beleg said:
James,

the quote I posted shows pretty clearly that the position where the helmet is placed doesn't matter. As long as a live ball hits a helmet, whether inadvertantly or deliberately, runs are awarded. If the batsman touched it then the runs go to him otherwise they are awarded as byes/leg-byes.

I don't see where penalty runs come into play in this.
Five penalty runs are awarded as extras whenever the ball hits the helmet, it's as simple as that. They are counted as extras (not byes or leg-byes, but as penalty runs) and are not awarded to the batsman.
Here is one such example. The ball hit the helmet in Australia's first innings and went to the boundary, but the only runs awarded were penalty runs, clearly seen in the extras column: Extras (b 7, lb 4, w 1, nb 4, pen 5).
 

Crazy Sam

International 12th Man
exactly right. i think the two laws of cricket relating to this occurence made it quite clear too.
 

savill

School Boy/Girl Captain
Then what if a batsman takes a single, and a wayward through hits the helmet? Is it one to the batsman + 5 pens?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Beleg said:
Right. Seems the website I picked the info from is flawed.
Not flawed, just outdated.
The way you put it was the way it used to be, then it was revised and "penalties" introduced.
Made it a bit simpler IMO - as per usual took Wisden to suggest it, just the same as the no-balls and wides adaptation.
Still never fails to amaze me that it took 220 years and more for sense to prevail there.
 

Buddhmaster

International Captain
savill said:
Then what if a batsman takes a single, and a wayward through hits the helmet? Is it one to the batsman + 5 pens?
I don't think they'd be able to take that run away from the batsman.
 

James90

Cricketer Of The Year
It would be like the 4 overthrows...it would be 6, 1 run to the batsman and 5 penalty runs...but does that make the ball dead? In which case it didn't happen?
 

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