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Wastemen etc
- Thread starter slippy888
- Start date
TheJediBrah
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If it was baiting then it worked
Mr Miyagi
Banned
Not a bad side, but it really is telling how t20 is skewed to the top order, given you have tried to squeeze 6 typically opening/top 3 bats into the team (incl KP) - when the players who have actually played and scored many runs in the middle order are more limited in availability and also fetch huge IPL salaries, Russell, Pollard, DJ Bravo less so. For these guys, their averages mislead to their true and fantastic value (which really has been more measured in their huge IPL earnings).
Even ABdV wanted to move up the order in t20 to 4min and happy to bat 3. The middle order is on a hiding to nothing. They either get criticized like Dhoni for taking too long to get started, or they get criticized for not reading the tempo of the game and are droppable if not allrounders themselves if the team is losing. And few make great careers out of it. I think Brad Hodge did for a while. Even Raina typically finds his way into batting in IPL teams at 3.
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TheJediBrah
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More so your best batsman almost always bat in the top 3. If you're batting 5 or 6 then chances are you're not even in your side's best 2 or 3 batsmen so you're not going to be making an ATG team.
It's definitely true what you're saying though, but it would be strange to pick an ATG team with inferior players though just because they have experience batting in the middle order. Couldn't hurt to throw a Bravo/Russell/Pollard in there instead of KP though, even if only to get an extra bowling option.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
It's essential to have a couple of Russell/Morris type blokes down the order in T20s who don't give a flying **** about their average so will just swing. Filling a line up with blokes with the best overall records won't make the best actual team imo
cnerd123
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Are we sticking to T20Is for the ATG team, or do we count in Franchise stuff?
If just T20Is it's pretty easy to Statsguru up some contenders from 5-6-7-8 (inc. keeper), just gotta find players with a substantial number of innings in those slots with a good SR and some good performances.
If we count in Franchise T20s it gets a bit trickier - Russel, Sammy, Pollard, Bravo all come to mind but because they all play so much. MSD and Raina have been excellent in the IPL in the middle order, but not so much internationally. Maxwell is probably more miss than hit. Struggling to think of other names who have done well in this area. Afridi?
If just T20Is it's pretty easy to Statsguru up some contenders from 5-6-7-8 (inc. keeper), just gotta find players with a substantial number of innings in those slots with a good SR and some good performances.
If we count in Franchise T20s it gets a bit trickier - Russel, Sammy, Pollard, Bravo all come to mind but because they all play so much. MSD and Raina have been excellent in the IPL in the middle order, but not so much internationally. Maxwell is probably more miss than hit. Struggling to think of other names who have done well in this area. Afridi?
Mr Miyagi
Banned
I think he's doing both as he included ABdV. Warner has dominated the IPL but not T20i.
WI have won 2 Wt20's - so its not really a fluke for Russell, Bravo and Pollard (missed the last one). Sammy was a passenger of that team playing in Wt20 India last as a specialist captain iirc. Bowled like 2 overs the whole tournament and batted down at 8.
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Mr Miyagi
Banned
IPL: below ideal. But good enough to keep getting signed. Mind you, so do Miller and Maxwell.
https://www.iplt20.com/teams/delhi-daredevils/squad/167/aaron-finch
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wellAlbidarned
International Coach
How is it possible that this place has gone further downhill since I stopped posting as much
cnerd123
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Burgey started talking about Masterchef
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It's a real shame that Symonds didn't play more T20 cricket. He was built for the game.
Crappy dibbly dobbly spin bowler, check.
Big hitter of the ball, check.
Incredible fielder, check.
He would probably be going down as up there with the very best in the format if he was born ten years later.
Crappy dibbly dobbly spin bowler, check.
Big hitter of the ball, check.
Incredible fielder, check.
He would probably be going down as up there with the very best in the format if he was born ten years later.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
I wonder if any anthropologists have done papers studying the life cycles of online communities. Derailing threads to ironically discuss masterchef surely indicates that the end is nigh
Mr Miyagi
Banned
With due respect, no *****.
When I said Raina typically finds his way batting in IPL teams at 3, I meant it.
HowSTAT! IPL Player Analysis by Batting Position
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vcs
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Couple of good seasons in there, didn't realize he'd been terrible this year. Delhi Daredevils curse, I guess.
Mr Miyagi
Banned
Finch gets shuffled around a lot, from opener to 5 and anywhere in between. He never looks the worse batsman in a side, even with his concrete feet, he always looks good to find a boundary.
On the plus side, he never looks out of form.
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/IPL/PlayerPositions.asp?PlayerID=3845
#5 has actually been his best position.
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TheJediBrah
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Well yeah that's the real trick. I'd rather go with a team of the best performers (who are inevitably going to bat in the top order). Guys like Watson, Finch, de Villiers, McCullum would probably be the best at batting 5-7 at the end of the innings anyway IMO, they just never did it because they were better utilised at the top.
Plenty of the 00s Aussies would have been T20 ATGs if they came a decade later. Symonds, Gilchrist, Hayden, Ian Harvey, Ponting etc
Mr Miyagi
Banned
Actually Watto bombed in the IPL for RCB batting at 5, 6 and 7.
But he was used incredibly stupidly. Even with Rahul, Gayle and Watto - VK and ABdV could have managed the batting order better to have been dynamite.
HowSTAT! IPL Player Analysis by Batting Position
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Borges
International Regular
IPL has evolved into being a hostile environment for batsmen who don't move their feet, don't play spin with a reasonable degree of competence.
In the good old days, at least death overs were invariably bowled by the quicks; that is no longer true.
Mr Miyagi
Banned
ABdV has limited foot movement, Finch has less, I don't think it is the be all and end all. Finch knicking off or the ball finding his pads or or the stumps against the new ball is more of a problem for him than spin in my opinion.
I mean I'd be happy if every batsmen looked and moved like Robin Uthappa, but it doesn't exactly bag him tonnes of runs every year.
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