Wasim Akram vs Fred Trueman

[Lillian Thomson]

Good reminder of Bishop, seems to have been forgotten as a bowler. Also came on the heels of another express and forgotten bowler, Pattrick Patterson.

Richard once claimed that although circumstances curtailed his career he still did enough to have had a better Test career than Shane Warne.

 

[smash84]

Richard once claimed that although circumstances curtailed his career he still did enough to have had a better Test career than Shane Warne.

I am almost glad Richard was before my time.

 

[kyear2]

Good reminder of Bishop, seems to have been forgotten as a bowler. Also came on the heels of another express and forgotten bowler, Pattrick Patterson.

Yes, Patterson was express, wasn't near to the quality of Bishop though. Injury aside, him and Waqar could have dominated the era.

 

[Calm_profit]

Good reminder of Bishop, seems to have been forgotten as a bowler. Also came on the heels of another express and forgotten bowler, Pattrick Patterson.

What about Sylvester Clarke I heard from Imran Khan and Viv Richards that he was fastest of all West Indian quicks?

 

[smash84]

What about Sylvester Clarke I heard from Imran Khan and Viv Richards that he was fastest of all West Indian quicks?

The thing about Clarke was that not only was he quick (although probably not the quickest) but he could be quite nasty especially with some of his deliveries rising off from short of a good length. Had a really high arm action and seemed to be out to hit the batsmen more than the stumps.

 

[Migara]

The thing about Clarke was that not only was he quick (although probably not the quickest) but he could be quite nasty especially with some of his deliveries rising off from short of a good length. Had a really high arm action and seemed to be out to hit the batsmen more than the stumps.

Just like though the slowest, Walsh could be the nastiest among the latter group of WI bowlers.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Based on eye test it would have surprised no one if Akram averaged 18 picking 5 wickets a match. But he didn't and someone like McGrath with seemingly less exciting bowling style did better (don't @ me on McGrath, you will be preaching to the choir). So you gotta ask what did Akram fail to do. We know cricket is a game of small margins. Akram despite all the tools was giving impression of being hardest to face more than actually getting players out (relative to other greats). It also shows up in his disproportionately large share of tail wickets: 35% wickets of batsmen playing at 8-11. Incidentally, Trueman with 31.6% is middling. For reference McGrath took only 25.2% tail wickets. http://howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Bowling/BowlingAggregates.asp

Akram is the classic case of why eye test fails in rating players.

I can see him averaging 18 for the entire decade of 1990s with a good fielding team. He averaged 21 anyway.

 

[kyear2]

I can see him averaging 18 for the entire decade of 1990s with a good fielding team. He averaged 21 anyway.

Do you really appreciate how huge the gap is from 18 to 21 though?

 

[subshakerz]

I can see him averaging 18 for the entire decade of 1990s with a good fielding team. He averaged 21 anyway.

No. Akram was great but not that great. I say this as a big fan of his.

Even as a bowler he had limitations. As skilled as he was, he wasn't the type to scheme and plan a batsman out, by his own admission. He wasn't the type to run straight through an opposition lineup like Imran or Ambrose when his tail was up. Once his pace dropped 98 onwards, he was much easier to block out and lacked penetration.

 

[Coronis]

Do you really appreciate how huge the gap is from 18 to 21 though?

I believe its 3 runs per wicket.

 

[a massive zebra]

I can see him averaging 18 for the entire decade of 1990s with a good fielding team. He averaged 21 anyway.

Lol. You massively overrate this bowler.

The kind of bowlers who achieve averages of 18 for several years in a row (Imran early 80s, Marshall mid 80s, Waqar early 90s etc) are consistently devasting and frequently run through batting lineups. Wasim hardly ever ran through a top order in over 100 Tests (yes there are a couple of exceptions, but barely a handful). He also played for Lancashire for many years and didn't average 18 even in county cricket.

Sure, Wasim was a very talented bowler who had an extensive range of deliveries and could exploit them at will. But ultimately the main objective of bowling is not about showing off a wide variety of skills, it is about getting your opposition out as quickly and cheaply as possible. The fact is, probably at least a dozen fast bowlers in history and several from his own generation did this more effectively than Wasim. A bowler capable of averaging 18 doesn't take under 4 wickets per match.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Do you really appreciate how huge the gap is from 18 to 21 though?

A good fielding team supposed to save 25 runs in a match, a bad one supposed to leak 25 runs.. Thats 50 in total. ( then there is dropped catches, scoring pressure.. Etc )

 

[OverratedSanity]

The fact is, probably at least a dozen fast bowlers in history and several from his own generation did this more effectively than Wasim. A bowler capable of averaging 18 doesn't take under 4 wickets per match.

Tbf, wasim very obviously wouldve taken well over 4wpm if his fielders were good.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Lol. You massively overrate this bowler.

The kind of bowlers who achieve averages of 18 for several years in a row (Imran early 80s, Marshall mid 80s, Waqar early 90s etc) are consistently devasting and frequently run through batting lineups. Wasim hardly ever ran through a top order in over 100 Tests (yes there are a couple of exceptions, but barely a handful). He also played for Lancashire for many years and didn't average 18 even in county cricket.

Sure, Wasim was a very talented bowler who had an extensive range of deliveries and could exploit them at will. But ultimately the main objective of bowling is not about showing off a wide variety of skills, it is about getting your opposition out as quickly and cheaply as possible. The fact is, probably at least a dozen fast bowlers in history and several from his own generation did this more effectively than Wasim. A bowler capable of averaging 18 doesn't take under 4 wickets per match.

He was taking 4.7 wkts per match in 90s.

So.. you dont think fielding skills are important in cricket.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Tbf, wasim very obviously wouldve taken well over 4wpm if his fielders were good.

Bad fielders, extra long career.. Still better than Ambrose.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Comparing Wasim and Waqar's destructiveness does not take into account their respective MOs: Waqar ran through sides by bowling full, fast, and at the stumps, and little else, thus taking his side's **** fielding out of the equation for the most part. Wasim could do this just as well but unlike Waqar he could do a good deal more too which in a SENA fielding side would have borne greater reward. Now this is not knocking Waqar for being ATG at the one thing and sticking to it; maybe Wasim should've acknowledged his side's miserable fielding and done the same as well. But then ideally a bowler shouldn't have to revamp a perfectly potent arsenal to compensate for elementary mistakes in the field.

 

[subshakerz]

Comparing Wasim and Waqar's destructiveness does not take into account their respective MOs: Waqar ran through sides by bowling full, fast, and at the stumps, and little else, thus taking his side's **** fielding out of the equation for the most part. Wasim could do this just as well but unlike Waqar he could do a good deal more too which in a SENA fielding side would have borne greater reward. Now this is not knocking Waqar for being ATG at the one thing and sticking to it; maybe Wasim should've acknowledged his side's miserable fielding and done the same as well. But then ideally a bowler shouldn't have to revamp a perfectly potent arsenal to compensate for elementary mistakes in the field.

Dont really buy this. What about Imran?

 

[smash84]

Dont really buy this. What about Imran?

Imran actually had a significantly better fielding side than Wasim because Imran wouldn't tolerate bad fielding, except, well, maybe by himself. That's why he would mostly be at mid on too, wouldn't get too many catches. Tbf to him he did carry plenty of batting and bowling load. But when he was captain he would give players hell for dropping catches and had extra fielding drills for the team. And if Imran wanted you out of the team, nobody in Pakistan could get you in. So....

Unfortunately not good footage but you get the picture, even though a one dayer, on a hattrick (?)

 

[smash84]

Clear at 5:20 here

 

[smash84]

Trying to find moin khan dropping a dolly off the first ball of wasim, so yeah, wasim suffered quite a bit with terrible fielders