Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
That is what Smith and Williamson have averaged for about the last 10 years.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Viv Richards vs Virat Kohli
- Thread starter ma1978
- Start date
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah against mostly far worse bowlers. I mean, Smith scored against worse bowlers like Rabada and Bumrah but even then never had gun series against pace like that.
Slifer
International Captain
Listen here, there was a series in Pakistan where Imran and Qasim were outstanding and WI won 1-0. No other WI batsmen averaged more than 40, except for Viv. He averaged 72 and was the batting difference between the teams. He was also the batting difference in the Frank Worrell series in Australia in 1979, the first time wi won down under.
Name any great bowler from Viv's era and at some point or another, he had a very good/great series vs them. Lara never averaged 50 + vs the WWs or Donald. Ditto Sachin. I know that's not the be all or end all just worth mentioning. The only 'issue' was that Viv never faced and Warne/Murali level type spinner. But he did face spinners the level just below: Underwood, the Indian Quartet etc. And he had very good/great series vs them as well.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Exactly. Hence why Viv had the best peak ever and deserves to be put up there.
Removing Viv’s 1976 stats and showing him to be inferior to other ATGs is one of the most annoying takes I have seen.
He didn’t regularly average 45 throughout the rest of his career. 77-88: Av 50@ super high SR, in really tough era for batting. His slump(one of the worst for an ATG) dragged his post 76 output down. Plus played WSC for a decent period in his peak(1281@58), so inclusion of that would help post 76 stats and overall also. Viv also nearly scored one fifth of his runs in one year, so removing that is to judge him is quite ridiculous. His short terms peaks are some of the best ever(best after Bradman in my opinion), and the long term peak while being good and far from Sobers and Tendulkar level. Viv should be seen as a batsmen averaging 50 in total and nothing else. Not someone who was Damien Martyn apart from 1976, nor someone who could have averaged 52 or 53 outside his peak, because both his slump and peak are integral parts of his career. He batted for his entire career in tougher batting conditions, a better short team peak(than anyone bar Bradman), and for atleast a series dominated the best bowlers of his time(and some of all time) like even Sachin or Lara couldn’t(and he overall also has favourable matchups against them) and his faster rate of scoring which meant he could change the game is the matter of a session, and his unprecedented psychological impact on the bowlers, like ending Rodney Hogg’s career in matter of 8-9 overs( this is one point that shows that stats can’t always measure of a player, especially like Viv). Also Viv has a very well rounded rounded home/away record. Viv averaging 50 is not a flaw, although sure it is not as good as Sobers or even say Sachin level.
Generally a reason why Viv’s average isn’t 50, is because his second peak unlike Lara and Tendulkar wasn’t enormously great(probably cause he didn’t get to murder minnows once in a while). Except that their career trajectories are similar, rookie first two years, first peak, slump, second peak, late career slump(although Tendy’s peaks were longer and Lara didn’t have a slump at end of his career, but a significantly severe one in the middle).
He didn’t regularly average 45 throughout the rest of his career. 77-88: Av 50@ super high SR, in really tough era for batting. His slump(one of the worst for an ATG) dragged his post 76 output down. Plus played WSC for a decent period in his peak(1281@58), so inclusion of that would help post 76 stats and overall also. Viv also nearly scored one fifth of his runs in one year, so removing that is to judge him is quite ridiculous. His short terms peaks are some of the best ever(best after Bradman in my opinion), and the long term peak while being good and far from Sobers and Tendulkar level. Viv should be seen as a batsmen averaging 50 in total and nothing else. Not someone who was Damien Martyn apart from 1976, nor someone who could have averaged 52 or 53 outside his peak, because both his slump and peak are integral parts of his career. He batted for his entire career in tougher batting conditions, a better short team peak(than anyone bar Bradman), and for atleast a series dominated the best bowlers of his time(and some of all time) like even Sachin or Lara couldn’t(and he overall also has favourable matchups against them) and his faster rate of scoring which meant he could change the game is the matter of a session, and his unprecedented psychological impact on the bowlers, like ending Rodney Hogg’s career in matter of 8-9 overs( this is one point that shows that stats can’t always measure of a player, especially like Viv). Also Viv has a very well rounded rounded home/away record. Viv averaging 50 is not a flaw, although sure it is not as good as Sobers or even say Sachin level.
Generally a reason why Viv’s average isn’t 50, is because his second peak unlike Lara and Tendulkar wasn’t enormously great(probably cause he didn’t get to murder minnows once in a while). Except that their career trajectories are similar, rookie first two years, first peak, slump, second peak, late career slump(although Tendy’s peaks were longer and Lara didn’t have a slump at end of his career, but a significantly severe one in the middle).
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
"Let us remove the greatest year by a batsman in modern cricket history and then assess Viv" agreed such an absurd take.
Posters actually don't know how to assess Viv.
Viv's relatively longer lean period is offset by a much higher peak period by ATG standards, and then he ended up with near Tendulkar stats overall.
So if you are going to deduct points for being less than worldclass for so long, then give him extra points for reaching heights no other modern batsman did.
Then we can have an actual conversation by fairly judging the merits and demerits of each bat.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Peak Viv was the greatest batsman since Bradman the world has ever seen. Take any other batsman at their peak and they fall short of him.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Lara 1993/94 was nuts. Got the Sydney 277, 6 100s in 7 knocks for Warwickshire, the 501also for them, and the 375
Last edited:
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sure, but even in that period he wasn't that consistent. I would take Tendulkar 96 to 2001 over early nineties Lara.
CricAddict
International Coach
How is Virat even being compared to Viv? There are about 20 batsmen between Viv and Virat.
CricAddict
International Coach
In ODIs, yes, it is a closer comparison. Viv, Sachin and Virat together are the 3 best top order ODI batsmen of all time. Choosing the best among them in ODIs is only subjective.
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
It’s not just aura. It’s what he could do to a match situation in such a quick time. It was very tangible. This aura **** that crops up from time to time irritates me. He not only intimidated the **** out of the opposition, he regularly delivered brutal knocks. Classic example of averages really not mattering that much.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Let’s put it this way, Viv Richards would be close to making my all time Test XI while Kohli would be nowhere near it.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
When we ranked batsmen last year Viv came out 5th, while Virat was 38th.
CricAddict
International Coach
Yeah. Knew that I was being conservative when I said 20.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
TIL @slippy888 has seen Bradman.
What about Smith (14-19) where he averaged 76 as opposed to a match average of 34.1 and Sobers (58-68) where he averaged 74.1 as opposed to a match average of 33.4
Viv batted much faster than either, and Viv dominated great bowlers with a better frequency than either, and Viv batted in the hardest era for batting, while Smith’s peak was mostly in a batting friendly era, while Sobers peak was still in a much better era for batting than Viv’s.