*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Immenso]

I do, however, buy into the theory their was some radical and naive practices at the old NZ academy from the mid 90s to early 00s. That contributed to a bulge of injuries. But that has worked its way through the system coming on 2 decades ago now.

 

[SteveNZ]

I may be incorrect here but if memory serves me correctly, I remember a documentary with Hadlee many years ago now, and he was against all the gym work fast bowlers do today and in his humble opinion that was one of the leading causes of injuries. He was more for just getting out there and bowling more and more.

It would be interesting comparing the number of injuries from Hadlee's era to today alongside the number of overs bowled.

Absolutely it worked for Sir Richard, but that doesn't necessarily speak to anything regarding anyone else.

You could point to bowlers who were in the gym (Brett Lee, Cummins, Southee, Boult - obviously we're talking different body shapes there) who had long careers without injury issues, or others who were injury plagued.

To me, one of the most important things you can have is a big, juicy arse. But not all of us are blessed with that genetically and it's hard to isolate the glutes without becoming too bottom heavy overall and losing speed

 

[SteveNZ]

I do, however, buy into the theory their was some radical and naive practices at the old NZ academy from the mid 90s to early 00s. That contributed to a bulge of injuries. But that has worked its way through the system coming on 2 decades ago now.

You can take that to the bank. Ashley Ross ruined a massive amount of careers during that time that people might not be aware of. One guy I know well, went to the Academy bowling 140km/ph outswingers - played in the star-studded NZ Youth team with Cairns, Harris, Parore etc - and came out with a ruined back, bowling 130km innies. They got the biomechanics horribly wrong, they trained on hard surfaces too much, it was just an absolute nightmare. Heath Davis, I think might have been a victim of that as well.

 

[Immenso]

One thing Dr Immenso is 100% sure of is that too much gym work would have absolutely no bearing on back stress fractures.

There may be other areas where there is impact, e.g. too much work in one area not another. But not a stress fracture.

But, generally, I'd think that is Hadlee and co transporting his own body type onto everybody.

 

[Immenso]

Hadlee is an interesting case. He had a more than full career, his brother broke down with a back injury one fifth of the way through his equivalent career.

 

[Bahnz]

The other concern is, at least from our past experiences with fast bowlers, these stress fractures rarely seem to be a case of "one and done".

Tbf, I think we've gotten better at managing stress fractures since the amount of work that went into salvaging Bond's career post 2003. Mat Henry had a bad stress fracture in 2010 I think, has been fine ever since. Boult had his in 2015, and didn't even miss a test (though he was well down on pace the following summer). From the sounds of it they tried too much too soon with KJ, but I don't think it's necessarily the career death sentence that it was 20 years ago.

 

[SteveNZ]

One thing Dr Immenso is 100% sure of is that too much gym work would have absolutely no bearing on back stress fractures.

There may be other areas where there is impact, e.g. too much work in one area not another. But not a stress fracture.

But, generally, I'd think that is Hadlee and co transporting his own body type onto everybody.

Yeah I'm not sure that's true. More weight through the crease equals more force on joints and bones, which could absolutely over time cause stress fractures. Shane Watson is built like Adonis and had a lot of stress fractures through his career

Sir Richard did a lot of road running in his career. There's not a single sport that I am aware of, other than marathon running, that recommends it. Weight bearing running is definitely frowned on in sports like rugby, football etc.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Stress fractures have long been a part of fast bowling life. I think Australia have had their fair share, just they produce more players of the required standard so perhaps they can afford to lose one to injury in a way that NZ can't. Duncan Spencer perhaps being the most intriguing from an Australian point of view.

 

[Skyliner]

‘Brendon Bracewell was a fast bowler who played six Tests for NZ between 1978 and 1984-85 but was plagued by a series of back injuries. He was picked to tour England in 1978 as an 18-year-old on the strength of three first-class matches. He made an immediate impression in his debut at The Oval where he removed Graham Gooch and Mike Brearley in his opening burst, and finished the three-Test series with nine wickets. But injuries quickly took their toll on his slight frame, and he played only three more Tests over the next seven years before retiring early. His last hurrah came when surprisingly selected to tour Australia in 1989-90 - it was sadly inevitable when he broke down after one game.’

 

[wellAlbidarned]

fast bowling is bad for you, the survivors are flukes. The answer as others have alluded to is to produce so many than you can tolerate the attrition rate.

 

[SteveNZ]

Stress fractures have long been a part of fast bowling life. I think Australia have had their fair share, just they produce more players of the required standard so perhaps they can afford to lose one to injury in a way that NZ can't. Duncan Spencer perhaps being the most intriguing from an Australian point of view.

Yeah, Jyhe Richardson can't stay on the field, Pattinson had an injury-plagued career, Billy Stanlake could have been anything, Cam Green has had back issues, I'm sure I'm missing some. Cummins is a freak in terms of how he's been available the last few years, and Starc is pretty indestructible. Those guys have also backed off IPL and ODI commitments at times for extended breaks

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Yeah, Jyhe Richardson can't stay on the field, Pattinson had an injury-plagued career, Billy Stanlake could have been anything, Cam Green has had back issues, I'm sure I'm missing some. Cummins is a freak in terms of how he's been available the last few years, and Starc is pretty indestructible. Those guys have also backed off IPL and ODI commitments at times for extended breaks

Lance Morris is currently out with a back problem and is actually coming to NZ to get it fixed. Article in cricinfo earlier this month.

 

[NZTailender]

The "Aussies seem to be able to keep their stable of fast bowlers on the park" because they are the ones who out-lasted their brittle-boned contemporaries.

 

[Flem274*]

You can take that to the bank. Ashley Ross ruined a massive amount of careers during that time that people might not be aware of. One guy I know well, went to the Academy bowling 140km/ph outswingers - played in the star-studded NZ Youth team with Cairns, Harris, Parore etc - and came out with a ruined back, bowling 130km innies. They got the biomechanics horribly wrong, they trained on hard surfaces too much, it was just an absolute nightmare. Heath Davis, I think might have been a victim of that as well.

Wasn't this Brent Arnel?

 

[NZTailender]

You can take that to the bank. Ashley Ross ruined a massive amount of careers during that time that people might not be aware of. One guy I know well, went to the Academy bowling 140km/ph outswingers - played in the star-studded NZ Youth team with Cairns, Harris, Parore etc - and came out with a ruined back, bowling 130km innies. They got the biomechanics horribly wrong, they trained on hard surfaces too much, it was just an absolute nightmare. Heath Davis, I think might have been a victim of that as well.

there's a whole lost generation of seamers -and batsmen - down to poor practice conditions and biometrics. I vaguely remember reading an article a while back called something like The Lost Generation. Like it's only in the last few years that they've made an effort to have year round indoor facilities with grass wickets for training instead of concrete.

I also remember Shane Bond saying something in an interview like "we should've been doing paddock hill runs for building strength" or something to that effect.

 

[Prince EWS]

Wasn't this Brent Arnel?

Deja vu from 2022. It's presumably still not Arnel.

 

[Immenso]

Really interesting podcast interview with Neil Wagner, by Kimber, on his podcast.

Over an hour long.

https://pca.st/episode/3258a432-58ca-45e7-860d-2efdea3d789a

 

[SteveNZ]

Proof that Flem doesn't pay attention to what I say

No, it's Craig Ross, incidentally.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/craig-ross-38262

 

[Prince EWS]

Proof that Flem doesn't pay attention to what I say

No, it's Craig Ross, incidentally.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/craig-ross-38262

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

**** that was so bad, still laughed though