The protege Ravindra Jadeja vs Shane Warne his early days mentor

[h_hurricane]

Incorrect, there are reports of illegitimate children of his in India

I would rephrase my initial statement a bit. In India, Warne was impotent in his top half, but at his potent best in his bottom half.

 

[Migara]

It helps their overall record, if you care to go into the details.

For instance Lillee, he played 44 at home, 26 abroad. Most of the overseas matches were played in England where he has done well. The places where he hasn't done well, Pakistan and West Indies, he has played way too less than what he has played at home against the same opposition. Not playing these countries as much abroad helps his overall average isn't it ?

West Indies and Pakistan has been the best side during Lillees career. Flopped against both on tour.

 

[Pratters]

I honestly think that Jadeja might just be a better bowler than Warne in tests tbh. Am I mad? Probably. But I am right in this case.

AWTA on both counts

 

[stephen]

At what point do we start to being subjectivity into it? I mean everyone is already displaying their biases here (Indians severely under rating Warne for example). When do we start to say that we don't think Jadeja is as good as Kumble as a bowler not because of statistics but because we've watched him bowl and Kumble is clearly the more challenging bowler in the majority of conditions?

I don't think many here have any perspective on how stupid they actually sounds by saying bull**** like Jadeja averages 28 against Australia and that actually means something or "Lillee is a home track bully" or "Murali is definitely the GOAT" (another thread but pertains to this conversation). The truth is everything you see is colouring your experience. If every test was played in India then pace bowling wouldn't even exist. If every test was played in Australia swing bowling would be considered nothing more than a two piece leather hack.

The fact is that India favours spin bowlers who spin hard into the pitch. Australia favours pace bowlers who can properly utilise extra bounce. England favours accurate swing bowlers and to a lesser extent spin. Sri Lanka favours spin. The West Indies used to favour pace but now is much more like Sri Lankan or Indian conditions. New Zealand favours swing. Pakistan favours reverse swing. The UAE favours spin. South Africa is like a hybrid of New Zealand and Australian conditions and Bangladesh is very similar to Indian conditions.

Until the 80s, very few tours existed outside England, Australia and the West Indies. In the 80s Sri Lacks and India started getting more tours, Pakistan became strong and New Zealand became competitive. In the 90s South Africa re emerged and Zimbabwe became competitive. In the 00s Bangladesh became a thing and India became a top tier nation. In the 10s Afghanistan and Ireland began and Bangladesh became competitive.

The fact is we will never know how good Marshall would have been in Bangladesh or how good Bradman would have been in Ireland. We can make some guesses and maybe extrapolate data but the more countries are granted test status and the more places cricket is played worldwide, the more opportunities will exist for players to have holes in their records.

So Warne and Murali both sucked in India. Who cares? In other countries they were unstoppable. It's fair to say that they were likely the best two spin bowlers in the history of the sport. But Jadeja is probably better than both of them in Indian conditions, which doesn't favour their style of bowling. But nor does Australia suit Jadeja's style of bowling, so Warne was way better there.

Ultimately we all need to realise that or beliefs about cricketers are coloured by our own experiences and biases. And as soon as the Indian contingent realise that their country is not conducive to good test cricket the sooner they can start preparing better pitches.

 

[Pratters]

Why do you think India is not conducive to test cricket? Lol

 

[stephen]

Why do you think India is not conducive to test cricket? Lol

Haha that line was a throwaway half truth to make sure people were paying attention. I do find that Indian pitches tend to descend more into defensive run-drying bowling than any other countries pitches though.

 

[honestbharani]

Haha that line was a throwaway half truth to make sure people were paying attention. I do find that Indian pitches tend to descend more into defensive run-drying bowling than any other countries pitches though.

That is because u have not watched enough cricket in India coz that is an absurdly false post.

 

[Jack1]

Entirely dependant on conditions. In Asia, turning conditions, definitely go with Jadeja. On flatter, less turning wickets, Warne and it's not even close.

Agree with you.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Haha that line was a throwaway half truth to make sure people were paying attention. I do find that Indian pitches tend to descend more into defensive run-drying bowling than any other countries pitches though.

In the last ~4-5 years?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Australia's test pitches truly are the most exciting in the world and produce the best cricket imo.

 

[h_hurricane]

I would have loved to live in an era where Lillee visits India, plays a full 5 test series, becomes the first and only bowler in history to concede 1000 runs in a test series and then writes an article in SMH about why India is a back breaker for fast bowlers and isn't a conducive place for test cricket.

Alas, it didn't happen.

 

[honestbharani]

Australia's test pitches truly are the most exciting in the world and produce the best cricket imo.

In the 90s, sure. But I dont really think they have been that good or even varied since the noughties. Some of it may have to do with the drop in pitches. But some of it is also coz I remember like in the 2011 tour, they actually go out of their way to dish out tracks based on the visiting sides. I guess the new Perth Stadium and SCG going back to old spin friendly ways are good indicators for them though.

Adelaide with the D/N test also seems to be more of a swing bowling pitch than the usual ones in Australia. So maybe they are again on the way to nice and varied conditions across the country.

 

[OverratedSanity]

So we've established that :

- Jadeja is a far better batsman
- Jadeja is around 10 times better as a fielder
- Jadeja has better facial hair
- Jadeja has a better celebration
- Jadeja is a better human being

- Warne bowls better in Australia sometimes

 

[Pratters]

I see you say Warne and Murali were both v bad in India so brush it aside. Shane Warne wasn't just bad in India which you can't just forget. He was terrible. Murali improved his record later.

 

[h_hurricane]

And any place Warne succeeds is a country conducive to test cricket.

 

[trundler]

Stephen once again showing his Aussie-centrism. Anything that deviates from the 'default' form of cricket (coincidentally the kind he's grown up with) is less good and doesn't count for one reason or another. Ponting being less good away doesn't matter for this reason.

 

[Pratters]

Warne's decimation in India, the whole getting beans from India despite living in good 5 star hotels and culminating him getting nightmares of Tendulkar smashing him all happened. It was memorable.

 

[ankitj]

I see you say Warne and Murali were both v bad in India so brush it aside. Shane Warne wasn't just bad in India which you can't just forget. Murali improved his record later.

Murali took 7 fivers and 2 tenfers against India. And also took another 5 fivers and 1 tenfer against Australia. But all that will be brushed aside because home pitch.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Maybe if the fatso actually ate good food and not beans, he'd have a good record in India, but alas we'll never know.

Good spin bowlers in India didn't eat baked beans, so I'm going to extrapolate this statistic despite it having absolutely no basis.

 

[Pratters]

Lillee not playing in India is a bigger cop out than Warne or Ponting being dire in India surely...