The protege Ravindra Jadeja vs Shane Warne his early days mentor

[Spark]

That was his sort of his point wasn't it? They have a lopsided proportion of matches at home which means they have a big advantage statistically.

No his point was that Anderson was skipping overseas tours deliberately to protect his stats Lillee-style. You can't "skip" tours that don't happen/are shorter than your home series.

 

[honestbharani]

No his point was that Anderson was skipping overseas tour to protect his stats Lillee-style.

I read it the way OS did, tbh. I think hurricane was just pointing out the disproportionate number of home games some of the Ashes greats get compared to Indian greats.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That was his sort of his point wasn't it? They have a lopsided proportion of matches at home which means they have a big advantage statistically.

If it was, it wasn't a very good point. It's only really relevant if the player in question has vastly differing home v away performances, which most of the players he mentioned don't at all.

Unless you're talking about a Warner, Hayden, Rohit, Asian spinner etc. then it's irrelevant, and clearly not going to give them "a big advantage statistically". Again, the reason it's brought up in regard to Ashwin & Jadeja is because of their differing value in these different conditions. "Yeah, well this guy from your country did this" is never a good comeback.

 

[ankitj]

Last page of this thread was not fun. First 4 pages were GOAT.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Jadeja is a fantastic heel. Not a truly evil caricature like Warne but the kind of annoying prick that'd get under your skin if you played for/supported the other team. He's also the ultimate butt of jokes - > genuine star story in crickets recent history. Guy was a laughing stock before his test career took off.

 

[h_hurricane]

No his point was that Anderson was skipping overseas tours deliberately to protect his stats Lillee-style. You can't "skip" tours that don't happen/are shorter than your home series.

I had mentioned it in that post that I do not know "whether it is deliberate or not". What is undeniable is that Anderson benefits from playing less abroad, looking at the vast discrepancy between his home and away averages.

The other possibility is that players could be picked for a tour but not play all the matches(like Ashwin or Jadeja). For instance, Anderson was picked for India tour of 2016, but played only 3 tests. He could be dropped, rested or injured but that helps him protect his overall record isn't it ?

 

[Shri]

yeah clouderson sucks abroad

this is known

 

[Burgey]

Anderson does dodge playing outside England. 89 matches at home vs 61 abroad. Whether it is deliberate or not, or if it is because the clouds hesitate to travel alongside him anywhere he goes, that is a different debate altogether.

I hate Anderson, but this is Sunilz-level junk posting.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I had mentioned it in that post that I do not know "whether it is deliberate or not". What is undeniable is that Anderson benefits from playing less abroad, looking at the vast discrepancy between his home and away averages.

The other possibility is that players could be picked for a tour but not play all the matches(like Ashwin or Jadeja). For instance, Anderson was picked for India tour of 2016, but played only 3 tests. He could be dropped, rested or injured but that helps him protect his overall record isn't it ?

Sure, but how is that relevant at all? People talk about Anderson being a home bully here all the time. You're literally just going with the "this irrelevant other guy from another country does this so there" comeback, again. It's not a good one.

 

[h_hurricane]

If it was, it wasn't a very good point. It's only really relevant if the player in question has vastly differing home v away performances, which most of the players he mentioned don't at all.

Unless you're talking about a Warner, Hayden, Rohit, Asian spinner etc. then it's irrelevant, and clearly not going to give them "a big advantage statistically". Again, the reason it's brought up in regard to Ashwin & Jadeja is because of their differing value in these different conditions. "Yeah, well this guy from your country did this" is never a good comeback.

It helps their overall record, if you care to go into the details.

For instance Lillee, he played 44 at home, 26 abroad. Most of the overseas matches were played in England where he has done well. The places where he hasn't done well, Pakistan and West Indies, he has played way too less than what he has played at home against the same opposition. Not playing these countries as much abroad helps his overall average isn't it ?

 

[_00_deathscar]

Lillee - 44 home, 26 abroad
Chappell - 55 home, 32 abroad

So basically two of the best Australia has ever produced are quite literally HTBs.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It helps their overall record, if you care to go into the details.

For instance Lillee, he played 44 at home, 26 abroad. Most of the overseas matches were played in England where he has done well. The places where he hasn't done well, Pakistan and West Indies, he has played way too less than what he has played at home against the same opposition. Not playing these countries as much abroad helps his overall average isn't it ?

maybe, I don't know enough about Lillee. But, once again, it gets brought up here regarding Lillee all the time. You gotta stop doing this:

You're literally just going with the "this irrelevant other guy from another country does this so there" comeback, again. It's not a good one.

It's like you're just trying to start, and continue, nationalistic **** fights

 

[Burgey]

I do not know "whether it is deliberate or not"

If he’s dodging something then it’s deliberate isn’t it? That’s the insinuation in the post.

 

[h_hurricane]

The England ones are pretty easy to explain. The team play more Tests at home. It doesn't mean they're dodging tours. Similar explanation for India's players I'd guess.

As for why people bring up Ashwin and Jadeja it's because their style as cricketers is much more dependant on helpful conditions than the others*. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure that out. So, no, it's not interesting at all.

The real question is why you're trying so hard to create nationalistic conflict out of nothing. It's not healthy or conducive to an enjoyable forum environment IMO.

*possibly with the exception of Anderson. But his reliance on home conditions is, if anything, discussed here more than Ashwin/Jadeja.

So you equate stating a few facts to creating nationalistic conflict. A clear example of reading between the lines here.

 

[Burgey]

maybe, I don't know enough about Lillee. But, once again, it gets brought up here regarding Lillee all the time. You gotta stop doing this:

This technique he’s using is classic Cevnoing

 

[TheJediBrah]

So you equate stating a few facts to creating nationalistic conflict. A clear example of reading between the lines here.

lol wtf you're literally grouping players based on their nationalities to create conflict and distract from the error of your line of posting. I'm also not sure you know what "reading between the lines" means. I think you meant to say "reading into things"

 

[srbhkshk]

lol wtf you're literally grouping players based on their nationalities to create conflict and distract from the error of your line of posting. I'm also not sure you know what "reading between the lines" means. I think you meant to say "reading into things"

Maybe he mentioned lines because the aussies tend to take them very seriously.

 

[harsh.ag]

Of course there is. His stats in similar conditions, corresponding stats of other subcontinental spinners and how they compared to their home stats etc. You could literally just look at Ashwin's stats in Aus compared to at home. That alone would be a better indicator than 2 Tests against a 2nd XI batting line-up.

No no no no no no

Excellent posting otherwise, tjb. Keep it up. The forum's integrity depends on it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The forum's integrity depends on it.

seems that way sometimes

 

[h_hurricane]

lol wtf you're literally grouping players based on their nationalities to create conflict and distract from the error of your line of posting. I'm also not sure you know what "reading between the lines" means. I think you meant to say "reading into things"

If mentioning Indian players is what bothers you, here are a few examples of non indian players.

Wasim Akram : 42 home, 61 abroad
Imran Khan : 38 home, 50 abroad
Javed Miandad : 60 home, 64 abroad
Waqar Younis : 33 home, 49 abroad

If you have something constructive to add to the discussion, you are free to do so, rather than posting the highlighted part which I never meant.

I am still genuinely interested in knowing if certain unconscious bias drives many here to think with prejudice against some players, and not so much against some other players(because some of them might be our favorites). And this question is not just intented to you TJB.