The Points Table/Standings

[DriveClub]

It was actually a great final. Cairns took NZ out of the dead against India in the final

 

[King Kane]

It was actually a great final. Cairns took NZ out of the dead against India in the final

I wish I had seen that innings from him, not many better batsmen to watch back then when he was teeing off.

He played a matchwinning knock against Australia in Cardiff at the 1999 World Cup too when we were in trouble.

He was that eras version of Stokes, he could turn a game with the way he took on the bowlers and demoralised them.

 

[Coronis]

So as someone who doesn’t follow ODIs, is the difference between SA in tests all down to de Kock? Or did SA’s tour of Aus just make them look worse than they actually are?

 

[ataraxia]

So as someone who doesn’t follow ODIs, is the difference between SA in tests all down to de Kock? Or did SA’s tour of Aus just make them look worse than they actually are?

m8 compare the ODI SA batting lineup with the Test SA batting lineup and report back.

 

[GIMH]

The 2000 ICC Knockout Trophy, you really got me

 

[Prince EWS]

So as someone who doesn’t follow ODIs, is the difference between SA in tests all down to de Kock? Or did SA’s tour of Aus just make them look worse than they actually are?

None of the above.

Their Test batsmen are bad. Their ODI batsmen are not.

Even when they're sometimes the same players (check out Rassie and Klaasen's records).

 

[ataraxia]

The 2000 ICC Knockout Trophy, you really got me

"global limited overs title" – well, it certainly was a limited-overs title, and it was pretty global: it had more participants than the 2019 ODI WC, including minnows like Kenya, Bangladesh, and England.

Fits the criteria.

 

[straw man]

The Chamipons Trophy is pretty highly coveted tbh, only the best chamipons get to play it.

 

[GIMH]

"global limited overs title" – well, it certainly was a limited-overs title, and it was pretty global: it had more participants than the 2019 ODI WC, including minnows like Kenya, Bangladesh, and England.

Fits the criteria.

The criteria was Fuller Pilch had to celebrate it and I have it on good authority that he didn’t

 

[Owzat]

whilst only 7 out of 19 sides who won the toss and batted won the game, here's an interesting set of stats to TOSS out there (although could say as he's a proven accomplished tosser I should let Burgey do the honours!)

Most tosses won
1. England 7 [batted P3 W2 L1, bowled P4 W0 L4]
=2. New Zealand 5 [batted P0 W0 L0, bowled P5 W3 L2]*
=2. Bangladesh 5 [batted 1st P1 W0 L1, bowled 1st P4 W2 L2]
=2. Holland 5 [batted P2 W1 L2, bowled P2 W0 L2]


*kiwi wins chasing were over England, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh so questionable if that is what they should (always) do

Holland managed 200+ 6 times out of 9, when they elected to bat they scored 262 vs Sri Lanka and lost by 5 wickets, scored 229 vs Bangladesh and won, managed a meagre 179 vs Afghanistan and lost by 7 wickets. They lost when opting to chase in similar circumstances both times, conceded 286-322 and were bowled out for 205-223

deshis won chasing targets set by Afghanistan and Sri Lanka, quite a good chase against the latter although obviously timed out controversy


South Africa were the only team not to win 4+ tosses, they batted against Bangladesh and won handsomely, opted to bowl against Holland and the rest is history as they say

daft thing is sides inserted the saffers and they posted:

428/5 vs Sri Lanka
311/7 vs Australia
367/9 vs Pakistan
399/7 vs England
357/4 vs New Zealand

how much of their qualification they owe to the benevolence of said sides who knows, they chased down 244 (247/5) and 270 (271/9) to pick up their other 4 points, but clearly prefer setting as their 5 out of 5 over 310 totals show compared to not exactly racking up the runs chasing, not that they needed to much against Afghanistan.

 

[Owzat]

"global limited overs title" – well, it certainly was a limited-overs title, and it was pretty global: it had more participants than the 2019 ODI WC, including minnows like Kenya, Bangladesh, and England.

Fits the criteria.

there are pros and cons to including more participants, too steep a learning curve for those minnows that do make it to learn much in a short space of time and often getting hammered - here only really Holland were true minnows and didn't do too badly, others are weak non-minnows and England were just sh.......

World Cup participants
1975 : 8 [Test 6, minnows 2]
1979 : 8 [Test 6, minnows 2]
1983 : 8 [Test 7, minnows 1]
1987 : 8 [Test 7, minnows 1]
1992 : 9 [Test 9, minnows 0] round robin format
1996 : 12 [Test 9, minnows 3]
1999 : 12 [Test 9, minnows 3]
2003 : 14 [Test 10, minnows 4]
2007 : 16 [Test 10, minnows 6]*
2011 : 14 [Test 10, minnows 4]
2015 : 14 [Test 10, minnows 4]
2019 : 10 [Test 10, minnows 0] round robin format
2023 : 10 [Test 9, minnows 1] round robin format

*India and Pakistan eliminated at group stage so BCCI made sure ICC never used that format again!

had forgotten the stage at 2019 was round robin, thought they played two of 6-7 but that was 2015. Number of Test nations rose from 6 in the early World Cup years to 7 when Sri Lanka became one in 1981 (?) then Zimbabwe 1992, reinstatement of South Africa, then Bangladesh, Ireland and Afghanistan, so many now they even make (some) Test nations qualify!

Champions Trophy
1998 : 9 [Test 9, minnows 0] one 'preliminary match' to whittle 9 down to 8, knockout format
2000 : 11 [Test 10, minnows 1] three 'preliminary matches' to whittle 11 down to 8, knockout format
2002 : 12 [Test 10, minnows 2]
2004 : 12 [Test 10, minnows 2]
2006 : 10 [Test 10, minnows 0]
2009 : 8 [Test 8, minnows 0]
2013 : 8 [Test 8, minnows 0]
2017 : 8 [Test 8, minnows 0]
2025 : 8 [Test 8, minnows 0]*

*Holland could have qualified had they finished in 1-8 in 2023 World Cup

basically minnows don't get a look in for the CT or World Cup, the latter had as many as SIX non-Test playing nations but the format to accommodate that many had to be four groups and after the exits of Pakistan and India at the group stage there was no way they'd go down that route again, they want round robin, super six or eight if necessary, to maximise "big games".

Once Ireland and Afghanistan (bit of a queue jumper from nowhere) got Test status it didn't change much, as in them being Test nations didn't have much of an impact to the competition formats. Surely given the format of group stage is now set to be either two of 6-7 or one of 10 that more or less closes doors to non-Test nations, Holland may not be the last we see for a while but they might be given only windies incompetence let them sneak in and spoil the "all Test" party I'm sure the ICC had their eyes on.


It is a shame, would rather instead of lots of bilateral series they prepared teams better for big tournaments with tournaments, triangulars, quadrangulars, invitational style trophies or eg Asia Cup. I appreciate plenty at this World Cup are Test players also but there's no need, plenty of talented cricketers in spite of the usual "down with the hundred, not enough 50 over domestic cricket" England pitchfork wielders.......

England ODIs - alternates to World Cup squad as selected by England
Batsmen (7) : Pope*, Crawley*, Salt*, Duckett*, Hain**, Roy**, Vince**

All-rounders (4) : Jacks*, Dawson**, Gregory**, Currant (T)**

Wicket-Keepers (3) : Smith**, Billings**, Simpson**

Bowlers (13) : Ahmed*, Tongue*, Hartley*, Turner*, Potts**, Scrimshaw**, Mahmood**, Archer**, Stone**, Jordan**, Overton (C)**, Payne**, Parkinson**

*selected for ODI squad for West Indies series
**played ODIs June 2021 to present, have ignored Morgan as retired

so 27 players who've been picked for the next ODI series or played in one between June 2021 and the World Cup, excludes all who played although could add eg Livingstone, Curran (S), Brook, Atkinson, Carse and a few more without retaining most of the squad so nearly enough for three teams yet the whinge is about domestic 50 over cricket and the Tundra. If there were slim pickings then England would be like other sides rise, do well and fade like Ireland, Kenya, probably Holland, Bangladesh to a degree, Sri Lanka, not likely given England has EIGHTEEN 'first class' counties and that isn't 'only' 198 cricketers........... (to pick from, not that all qualify, but the pool is fairly large if not that deep)

 

[andruid]

Easy to forget, that tournament was held in Kenya and went for less than 2 weeks, I didn't watch a ball of it as I was travelling around Europe at the time.

I only found out that we had won that trophy until after it had all finished so it's not very memorable for me unfortunately.

I am a Kenyan cricket geek and I also occasionally forget that this was a thing that happened.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

We were a minnow in 2019. We had to play the qualifiers to get into the main tournament.

 

[centurymaker]

Forget about the points, the teams are perfectly in the right order by NRR itself.