The England Thread

[GIMH]

What's with the Andy Johnson hate club, he had loads of time out injured this season, scored an awful lot of goals last season, and 30+ the year before. He's a good striker, not world class for sure, but better than Darren Bent

I'm thinking we'll line up like this

Robinson

Neville
Terry
Ferdinand
A Cole

Carrick

Beckham
Lampard
Gerrard

J Cole
Owen

 

[Craig]

Not bad although I'd have Becks on the right, Carrick floating in front of the back four and Gerrard or Lampard having licence to join Cole and Owen. One real positive about all this is Carrick actually fitting into the team, well deserved IMO.

4 -1 -4 - 1 in attack?

I have heard one suggestion (although it wasn't serious): 4 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 and let everybody else figure out what do next for themselves

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Couple of minor alterations, I think this woul work better.

Quite right.

 

[Craig]

What's with the Andy Johnson hate club, he had loads of time out injured this season, scored an awful lot of goals last season, and 30+ the year before. He's a good striker, not world class for sure, but better than Darren Bent

I'm thinking we'll line up like this

Robinson

Neville
Terry
Ferdinand
A Cole

Carrick

Beckham
Lampard
Gerrard

J Cole
Owen

Because they feel that he scores a lot of penalties and should take part in the Great Britian diving squad for the Beijing Olympics?

 

[Pedro Delgado]

4 -1 -4 - 1 in attack?

I have heard one suggestion (although it wasn't serious): 4 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 and let everybody else figure out what do next for themselves

Systems are just numbers. That's a funny one though

 

[GIMH]

Because they feel that he scores a lot of penalties and should take part in the Great Britian diving squad for the Beijing Olympics?

He does score a lot of penalties but he also scores a lot of goals in open play, and he gains a lot of those penalties himself, regardless of whether he dives or not

He's a better goalscorer than Ashton, I can't believe anyone could think otherwise

 

[Barney Rubble]

4 -1 -4 - 1 in attack?

I have heard one suggestion (although it wasn't serious): 4 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 and let everybody else figure out what do next for themselves

Reminds me of Mike Bassett: England Manager - "We will be playing the 3-1-2-1-2-1 formation....."

Mike Bassett > Sven?

 

[Barney Rubble]

He does score a lot of penalties but he also scores a lot of goals in open play, and he gains a lot of those penalties himself, regardless of whether he dives or not

He's a better goalscorer than Ashton, I can't believe anyone could think otherwise

I'd say the exact opposite. In Palace's Premiership season, Johnson scored roughly 10 goals that weren't penalties. Had Palace happened to have a better penalty-taker than him, his goals tally for the season would have been nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever, and no-one would ever have noticed him.

He actually missed about three penalties, too, so he's not even that good a penalty-taker. The fact is, if Palace had had another penalty-taker in their side, he'd never have got near the England side. If 10 goals in a season is England form, then we truly are screwed.

Ashton, on the other hand, made a seamless transition from the Championship to the Premiership in the middle of a season, became the lynchpin of his new side's attack, and scored something like 11 goals in about half a season, none of which were penalties IIRC. He also made most of them himself, and got a fair few assists to go with it. AFAIC he's a far superior player.

 

[Craig]

Isn't/wasn't Ashton injured?

 

[Barney Rubble]

Isn't/wasn't Ashton injured?

Yeah, he is, I just like arguing.

 

[luckyeddie]

Systems are just numbers. That's a funny one though

Against Sheff Wendys we played 4-6-0

 

[Barney Rubble]

Against Sheff Wendys we played 4-6-0

Carlos Alberto is working on a 4-6-0 formation for Brazil to play in the future. He said it would be the "pinnacle of fluid attacking football" or something. It's supposed to work with all the midfielders interchanging and all acting as strikers at different times - will be interesting to see if he can develop it to the extent that it actually works in practice.

 

[luckyeddie]

Carlos Alberto is working on a 4-6-0 formation for Brazil to play in the future. He said it would be the "pinnacle of fluid attacking football" or something. It's supposed to work with all the midfielders interchanging and all acting as strikers at different times - will be interesting to see if he can develop it to the extent that it actually works in practice.

Yes, but the Rams did it out of necessity.

No strikers
No forward runs
No idea

West Ham pioneered a system in the 1960's that they called 'third man theory' (nothing to do with cricket, but everything to do with Martin Peters coming through to get on the end of things). I have no idea of the relevance of that fact to the current topic of discussion - other than to say that there's little truly new and innovative in any field (just recycled buzzwords).

 

[Barney Rubble]

Yes, but the Rams did it out of necessity.

No strikers
No forward runs
No idea

West Ham pioneered a system in the 1960's that they called 'third man theory' (nothing to do with cricket, but everything to do with Martin Peters coming through to get on the end of things). I have no idea of the relevance of that fact to the current topic of discussion - other than to say that there's little truly new and innovative in any field (just recycled buzzwords).

Latest edition of FourFourTwo has the second part of an interesting article on tactics through the ages - it suggests that the abiding tactical legacy of the last ten years or so will be that it taught football to think in four lines (4-3-1-2, 3-4-1-2 etc) rather than three (4-4-2, 4-3-3 etc).

The 'third man theory' you describe seems to be a prototype of the 4-3-1-2 formation so commonly used nowadays. I've always believed in tactics and positions being defined not by roles, but by the areas of the pitch a player occupies over the course of a match, so I'm completely on board with the idea that there's little new happening these days in this field. Take the concept of a 'wing-back' - supposedly an invention of the mid-90s, but in fact merely a duplication of what Giacinto Facchetti used to do for Italy ages ago.

 

[Great Birtannia]

Except one of the 4 will be playing off the striker, so that automatically needs additional cover.

On the right is Lennon, basically taken for the experience.
On the left is Downing, more likely to play than Lennon, but also getting experience.
In the middle is Jenas, as good an option for cover as anyone else.
The man who knows all things German, Hargreaves is a token selection.

Left - J.Cole, Downing
Centre - Lampard, Gerrard, J.Cole, Carrick
Right - Beckham, Gerrard, Lennon

Hargreaves is meant to be able to play all across the midfield and must only be in the squad for his versatility. There would be enough cover there without Jenas.

England will struggle with 4-5-1 (4-4-1-1, 4-3-3 whatever), to play it effectively you need a strong targetman who is good in the air i.e. not Crouch to hold the ball up for the midfield. Chelsea have Drogba, Australia will use Viduka and so on. I just can't see J.Cole or Gerrard playing in behind Owen and being effective but yeah that's just an outsiders opinion, you would know better than me.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

What all the fuss is about.

 

[Barney Rubble]

What all the fuss is about.

He looks set to make his England debut before his top-flight debut - can't be many players to have done that.

Is undoubtedly a special talent though. The future's bright.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

He looks set to make his England debut before his top-flight debut - can't be many players to have done that.

Is undoubtedly a special talent though. The future's bright.

Sorry for all that red and white Barney, but I'm sure you're man enough to rise above it

He does look the mutts nuts.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Sorry for all that red and white Barney, but I'm sure you're man enough to rise above it

He does look the mutts nuts.

Haha, I have no problem with red and white these days - it just makes me laugh.

 

[steds]

Reminds me of Mike Bassett: England Manager - "We will be playing the 3-1-2-1-2-1 formation....."

Mike Bassett > Sven?

Best film ever. Ever ever ever.






EVER!!!


Seen it nigh on 30 times, you know.

"Think you're big and clever swearing and shouting at people? Can't you think of something constructive to say? 'Cause if you can, I'd like to hear it"

"Yeah, alright. Why don't you play two players up front instead of one."

"Two. Ok. Anything else?"

"You could try switching Robbo from the left flank to the right 'cause he's alot more constructive there."

"Push Tonker back into the attacking midfield role, right. Danny drops back and he shores up defence"

"It would be nice to see Massey make some jinking runs into the box like he does for his club."

"With Rufus and Fairbrother upfront together, you'd have an effective partnership of strength and skill"

...
"**** off!"