• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

The England development squad

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Link said:
a bit dissapointed to see prior miss out. Read has lost his place in the team twice now, and he still has not scored big runs which is holding him out of the team. Jones does not even look like losing his place to read, but to prior, maybe
Jones should never, ever have gained Read's ODI place ITFP, and given that this squad is supposed to include ODI-only players it's an encouraging sign that he's still in the mix.
If Prior ever plays for England we're in trouble. If you think Jones is too aggressive and bats brainlessly (and everyone in their right mind does by now) just wait till you see Prior.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
BoyBrumby said:
I'd guess the best they can probably hope for now is a "horses-for-courses" pick on a green-top seamer like Bicknell at Headingly in 2003 v SA.
Yet ironically Bicknell didn't do especially well after his opening 2 overs at Headingley when he was a perfect h-f-c pick, and did far better at his home ground where no-one could possibly have expected him to!
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
BoyBrumby said:
I'd definitely agree that Saggers wasn't, rather an honest tradesman who can sometimes prosper in English conditions
Saggers had proper English conditions in both his Tests; he didn't perform, simple as. He bowled far, far less well in his Tests than he usually does in the Championship.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
sledger said:
yes poor old saggers he is a nice lad, who clearly tries his hardest for england and makes the most of his talent. Kirtley on the other hand has a dodgy action and was innefective in the england side since the matches against south africa, as for johnson yes i could say the same about him, but i never really rated him.
Kirtley doesn't have a dodgy action, just one of those unfortunate enough to have a double-jointed elbow which makes the unwary accuse him of chucking.
And please don't say you think Johnson has a dodgy action?
 

Link

State Vice-Captain
Richard said:
Jones should never, ever have gained Read's ODI place ITFP, and given that this squad is supposed to include ODI-only players it's an encouraging sign that he's still in the mix.
If Prior ever plays for England we're in trouble. If you think Jones is too aggressive and bats brainlessly (and everyone in their right mind does by now) just wait till you see Prior.
well rich, can you help me because i am a worried man. Jones, Read and Proir are all fine keepers and they will be able to handle test or ODI expectancies.
However so far, they are fighting for their position over their batting. However none of them are test or ODI standard batsmen. So what is the point
 

Link

State Vice-Captain
i supose that may be a little harsh on Jones, but i will take consistancy over one or two knocks any day
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Link said:
well rich, can you help me because i am a worried man. Jones, Read and Proir are all fine keepers and they will be able to handle test or ODI expectancies.
However so far, they are fighting for their position over their batting. However none of them are test or ODI standard batsmen. So what is the point
The point is I can never see Prior being either Test-class or ODI-class; I can't see Read ever being Test-class; I can't see Jones ever being ODI-class.
But I certainly can see Jones becoming a Test-class batsman, if he just learns to bring some thought to the crease; and I even more certainly can see Read becoming a ODI-class batsman, in fact I think he was well on the way to becoming so before he was stupidly dropped.
 

Link

State Vice-Captain
well none of them seem suitable so far. i would like to see Prior have a go. Im not looking for a Gilchrist or a sangakkara, because that is unrealistic. Just some consistancy, like Stewart provided
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Richard said:
Saggers had proper English conditions in both his Tests; he didn't perform, simple as. He bowled far, far less well in his Tests than he usually does in the Championship.
err trent bridge was not 'proper english' conditions, it was a flat pitch that turned into a turner as the game progressed. how in the world someone as poor as him managed to perform consistently every season is beyond me, perhaps he managed to bowl well on every seamer friendly wicket that he encountered in england.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
BoyBrumby said:
I'd definitely agree that Saggers wasn't, rather an honest tradesman who can sometimes prosper in English conditions; but I think Kirtley & especially Johnson both had potential at test & ODI level..
to say that kirtley was anything greater than rubbish would be overestimating him IMO. had one good inning on an uneven bounce wicket, which was the only thing he could ever do. got caned in SL and got caned in virtually every ODI he played.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Richard said:
Kirtley doesn't have a dodgy action, just one of those unfortunate enough to have a double-jointed elbow which makes the unwary accuse him of chucking.
And please don't say you think Johnson has a dodgy action?
no i dont think johnson has a dodgy action it was just a typo, doesnt take away from the fact that i dont rate him though.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Richard said:
How do you know that's it? Johnson has played 1 proper Test, FCOL! How the hell do you know he's not a Test-class bowler?
if u are refering to this one proper test that Johnson played to the GALLE test, well after he ran through poor Zimbawe & BAN in his previous 3 test he didn't look all that hot in that test, i agree with your stand on its a bit rough to rate a player after just one test but come on mate do really think he would or could have been a bowler of test class?
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Richard said:
Kirtley doesn't have a dodgy action, just one of those unfortunate enough to have a double-jointed elbow which makes the unwary accuse him of chucking.
And please don't say you think Johnson has a dodgy action?
u sure thats why Kirtley bowls the way he does, because i have never heard that before, frankly he think he chucks umm
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
tooextracool said:
one can only wonder how long they're going to consider players who have been proven to be absolutely useless at the intl level. i mean you'd think that a test bowling average of 69 would say something as to how poor a bowler he is.
thats true, batty hasn't impressed me much, one womders how long more england will continue with him, well thats shows that we dont have much depth in the spin depart in county cricket. Blokes like Keedy, Brown for me will always be just county bowlers.

Maybe its time for Swann to step up and show what he has to offer
 

Link

State Vice-Captain
aussie said:
thats true, batty hasn't impressed me much, one womders how long more england will continue with him, well thats shows that we dont have much depth in the spin depart in county cricket. Blokes like Keedy, Brown for me will always be just county bowlers.

Maybe its time for Swann to step up and show what he has to offer

no. Dawson. strangly i am going to say no more about this becuase i have said it so many times i cannot remember.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
How do you know that's it? Johnson has played 1 proper Test, FCOL! How the hell do you know he's not a Test-class bowler?
Like many before him, he can get batsmen out in County Cricket.

There's a whole different knack to getting them out in Tests.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
He bowled far, far less well in his Tests than he usually does in the Championship.
Or was it the fact he was up against batsmen with more ability so his potency was reduced to next to nothing?
 

tooextracool

International Coach
aussie said:
Maybe its time for Swann to step up and show what he has to offer
i saw swann bowl in his only ODI back in 99/00. looked like a fairly decent bowler who turned the ball quite a bit. got one to turn sharply from off stump to way outside leg. only bowled 5 overs though and got dropped after that.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
tooextracool said:
i saw swann bowl in his only ODI back in 99/00. looked like a fairly decent bowler who turned the ball quite a bit. got one to turn sharply from off stump to way outside leg. only bowled 5 overs though and got dropped after that.
If you go on Sussex's website they have highlights of the CC match vs notts. Swann looks to be bowling pretty well, and Read's keeping was looking pretty sublime
 

badgerhair

U19 Vice-Captain
marc71178 said:
Like many before him, [Johnson] can get batsmen out in County Cricket.

There's a whole different knack to getting them out in Tests.
Much though I hate to agree with Richard, I think Johnson had every chance of being a good Test bowler. I've thought so ever since I watched him giving Lara lots of problems in 1994 (when he was in the middle of his run of centuries - he was very lucky to escape during the f-c game, and in the Sunday game Johnson had him out lbw second ball). However, he has had problems appearing in as many as four consecutive matches since 1994, and he's not good enough, and never would be, to be someone you could bring in as a shock weapon once a series. In the end, Johnson would cause too much fuss-arsing around with the constant medical reports and the other bowlers being on tenterhooks as to whether they would be playing, which would badly disrupt the team's preparation.

Cheers,

Mike
 

Top