DhonisOnslaught
Cricket Spectator
According to Gary Sobers The best Leg spinner ever is subhash gupte .Do you agree with him ?
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/aus...ory/238823.html
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/aus...ory/238823.html
While many will disagree (most I should say) with Sobers contention that Gupte was the greatest leg spinner of all time, to say that he was another Bob Massie is to show complete lack of knowledge about one of the great spinners of all time.Francis said:Nope. Sobers only played one five-test series against India when Gupte played against him. Gupte had plenty of games where he went for over 100 and only got one or none wickets. One performance sticks out like a sore thumb and it was when Gupte got 9 wickets in an innings. I'm guessing Sobers means at his best, Gupte was the best ever... even if he only had one great game.
In which case Bob Massie is now the greatest swing bowler existed.
There's absolutely no case that Gupte was better than Warne over such a long and impressive career. The only leg-spinners that challenge Warne are O'Rielly and Grimmett.
But I think it's clear Warne's the best leg-spinner ever.
Benaud is roughly the same class according to most people; Richie feels Warne is better than he was, and most people who watched Warne and O'Reilly feel Warne was the better bowler.Francis said:There's absolutely no case that Gupte was better than Warne over such a long and impressive career. The only leg-spinners that challenge Warne are O'Rielly and Grimmett.
If you're going to say that Grimmett was different, you've got to say that O'Reilly was different too.Richard said:Benaud is roughly the same class according to most people; Richie feels Warne is better than he was, and most people who watched Warne and O'Reilly feel Warne was the better bowler.
Grimmett was a much different bowler to the other 3, much more comparable to someone like Abdul Qadir.
May be you should stop reading his articles unless you are suggesting that he cant have an opinion.Langeveldt said:How many times do I have to write "Sobers should stick to golf"?
From what i've read, O'Reiley was very much like McGill who bowled at a higher pace. He moved the ball massively and produced highly unplayable deliveries but was erratic.Tom Halsey said:If you're going to say that Grimmett was different, you've got to say that O'Reilly was different too.
O'Reilly is reported to have bowled at a pace approaching fast-medium, and hence IMO he would have been quite comparable to Kumble (although better obviously, great bowler that Kumble is) - but O'Reilly is reported to have turned it a bit too (not much though).
Warne is more a flight bowler, decieving batsmen that way rather than firing it in.
I've not read too much about Grimmett so won't comment there.
O'Reilly was certainly quicker than your average spinner by all reports - but the fact that there were no speedguns means it's possible that change was exaggerated. Seriously - apart from Derek Underwood, how many spinners have bowled at the speed of a seamer (even Underwood was probably only in the early 70s at best)? I can't think of any successful ones, and I certainly can't conceive that someone could spin the ball and still bowl every delivery at 80mph - even Gough's slower-ball (the quickest off-break I've seen) is usually 75-76ish.Tom Halsey said:If you're going to say that Grimmett was different, you've got to say that O'Reilly was different too.
O'Reilly is reported to have bowled at a pace approaching fast-medium, and hence IMO he would have been quite comparable to Kumble (although better obviously, great bowler that Kumble is) - but O'Reilly is reported to have turned it a bit too (not much though).
Warne is more a flight bowler, decieving batsmen that way rather than firing it in.
I've not read too much about Grimmett so won't comment there.
Not to mention that Grimmett invented the Flipper, as Prasanna probably invented the Doosra.C_C said:From what i've read, O'Reiley was very much like McGill who bowled at a higher pace. He moved the ball massively and produced highly unplayable deliveries but was erratic.
Grimmett was the original Kumble- he rarely turned the ball more than a couple of inches and his wickets were based on line, length and an assortment of googlies and leg breaks.
I would say that the best flight of any wrist spinner i've ever seen is Qadir.Warne is probably the most skillful flight bowler of all wristspinners, as well as being a huge spinner of the ball.
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/154668.htmlC_C said:From what i've read, O'Reiley was very much like McGill who bowled at a higher pace. He moved the ball massively and produced highly unplayable deliveries but was erratic.
Obviously - fingerspinners need to use flight more than wristspinners. Bedi is generally recognised by most people as one of if not the best users of flight ever.C_C said:I would say that the best flight of any wrist spinner i've ever seen is Qadir.
If you include flight period, it would be Bedi unquestionably.
That's very interesting, because all descriptions I've heard hitherto suggested Grimmett wasn't often a particularly massive spinner of the ball, and O'Reilly generally was.Tom Halsey said:http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/154668.html
The last paragraph says "he relied primarily upon supreme accuracy of length" so I think we can say O'Reilly was reasonably accurate - this piece was written when he was playing (Wisden Cricket of the Year 1935) so it's written by someone wh in all probability saw him.
Also, this piece was written by someone who saw both Grimmett and O'Reilly back in the 30s:
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/67769.html
He says that Grimmett turned it far more but O'Reilly was undoubtedly the better bowler. He also says that he doesn't think O'Reilly bowled a loose ball.
From what I can gather of these O'Reilly was very accurate, and turned it enough to take the edge but not huge amounts, whereas Grimmett turned it a fair bit.
I too have seen discriptions of O'Reilly saying that he was a reasonably big turner of the ball. I think, in all probability, he turned it enough without ever turning it square.Richard said:That's very interesting, because all descriptions I've heard hitherto suggested Grimmett wasn't often a particularly massive spinner of the ball, and O'Reilly generally was.