The best Indian side: India (2007-2011) vs India (2015-2022)

[Kirkut]

Actually you are short selling the previous Indian team which won in England and NZ and drew against a strong side in SA, beyond what this team has done. Zaheer and Harbi were very good in their overseas tours in these countries and won India key games.

Zaheer Khan was our only hope back then but as much a big impact he's had on our wins, he simply cannot hold a candle to Bumrah and Shami, far superior bowlers.

 

[Kirkut]

India drew against SA and won the WC by early 2011, that's why.

That draw vs SA is underrated IMO, an arguably ATG SA side with peak Steyn.

 

[subshakerz]

Zaheer Khan was our only hope back then but as much a big impact he's had on our wins, he simply cannot hold a candle to Bumrah and Shami, far superior bowlers.

Bumrah maybe, but Shami isn't 'far superior'. My view of both of them has lessened since they allowed three successful chases against SA and Eng this year.

 

[subshakerz]

That draw vs SA is underrated IMO, an arguably ATG SA side with peak Steyn.

It is underrated. In fact, India came close to winning that series if Dhoni didnt chicken out in the 3rd test and spread the field when he had SA down at 6/130.

 

[Kirkut]

Bumrah maybe, but Shami isn't 'far superior'. My view of both of them has lessened since they allowed three successful chases against SA and Eng this year.

A lot of this has to do with how much the game has changed.

Two important changes:

1. Day 5 pitches are mostly not tough to bat on, they might be as fresh as a day 1 pitch.

2. Batsmen have no fear, an 80 ball 100 on a day 5 pitch is quite possible.

Cummins too had his share of struggles with Headingley 2018 and Gabba 2021, although he bowled superbly in both the tests.

Most bowlers irrespective of how good they are may find it tough given how batsmen have gained so much confidence with their six hitting ability.

 

[subshakerz]

A lot of this has to do with how much the game has changed.

Two important changes:

1. Day 5 pitches are mostly not tough to bat on, they might be as fresh as a day 1 pitch.

2. Batsmen have no fear, an 80 ball 100 on a day 5 pitch is quite possible.

Cummins too had his share of struggles with Headingley 2018 and Gabba 2021, although he bowled superbly in both the tests.

Most bowlers irrespective of how good they are may find it tough given how batsmen have gained so much confidence with their six hitting ability.

But these points dont account for their collective failures in SA when SA ground out victories fairly comfortably on pitches that still offered something. At least you would expect the supposed best pace attack in the world to make them sweat.

 

[Xuhaib]

Shami is a high class bowler though I think he might be slightly past it in last 12 months. I am not sure of how accurate his official age is looks closer to 35 then 30.

 

[Kirkut]

But these points dont account for their collective failures in SA when SA ground out victories fairly comfortably on pitches that still offered something. At least you would expect the supposed best pace attack in the world to make them sweat.

That's where the shortcomings of the Indian batting line shows up, Kohli not in form, Rohit a hit or miss, Pujara will give hopes with 120 ball 31 and then throw his wicket away, Rahane short of confidence and Pant is well....Pant.

Comparing that with SA where Markram, Van Dussen, Elgar and Keegan batted like a unit without being individually more talented than their Indian counterparts.

 

[Gob]

My favorite India team is the one from 2011.

 

[Chrish]

Xi against quality spin bowling made of non-Asian players:

Cook
Hayden
S Smith
Lara
Damyn Martin
Kallis
Andy Flower
Warne
Steyn
Donald
McGrath

Really tempted to include ABDV but Martyn had a beast series both in india and SL which is difficult to get past.

 

[Gob]

You're going to need a better keeper

(Read it as in the jaws)

 

[subshakerz]

Xi against quality spin bowling made of non-Asian players:

Cook
Hayden
S Smith
Lara
Damyn Martin
Kallis
Andy Flower
Warne
Steyn
Donald
McGrath

Really tempted to include ABDV but Martyn had a beast series both in india and SL which is difficult to get past.

Kallis didn't do well against Murali.

 

[CricAddict]

Kallis didn't do well against Murali.

Poor Kallis. Leave him alone.

 

[subshakerz]

Xi against quality spin bowling made of non-Asian players:

Cook
Hayden
S Smith
Lara
Damyn Martin
Kallis
Andy Flower
Warne
Steyn
Donald
McGrath

Really tempted to include ABDV but Martyn had a beast series both in india and SL which is difficult to get past.

If you are talking about bowlers in Asian conditions, Marshall, Walsh or Pollock should be there.

 

[Chrish]

Kallis didn't do well against Murali.

Neither did Lara in india.. But Lara demonstrated his skills in SL. Conversely, Kallis did it in India and Pakistan/ UAE.

Good enough for me. He also provides much needed all-rounder spot to balance 4 bowlers attack.

 

[Chrish]

If you are talking about bowlers in Asian conditions, Marshall, Walsh or Pollock should be there.

It was mainly reserved for players I have seen which would exclude Marshall. And I prefer three pacers in my team over Polly and Walsh..

 

[subshakerz]

It was mainly reserved for players I have seen which would exclude Marshall. And I prefer three pacers in my team over Polly and Walsh..

Pollock is better than both Donald and McGrath in the subcontinent. The guy was instrumental in series victories in India and Pakistan and a drawn series in SL. Donald was more of a side player.

 

[subshakerz]

Neither did Lara in india.. But Lara demonstrated his skills in SL. Conversely, Kallis did it in India and Pakistan/ UAE.

Good enough for me. He also provides much needed all-rounder spot to balance 4 bowlers attack.

Yeah but spin wasn't Kallis' strongest suit. Amla and Cullinan were probably a better players of spin in his own side.

Stephen Fleming is another one, averaged over 100 against Murali.

 

[Isura]

You may (or may not) have a point regarding Pakistan from 1976-95 as Imran passed on the legacy to Wasim. Doesn't work one bit in India's example. Lets get to the details.

Pujara and Bumrah were the main architects of the 2018-19 triumph. Pujara made massive contributions with the bat, but he always bats like that (cocooning himself in a shell). It came off very well of course, but you can't attribute that to how Tendulkar, Dravid or Laxman batted in 2003.
And it will be preposterous if someone suggests that Bumrah learned something from Agarkar, a far inferior bowler.

We all know what happened in 2020-21. It was a triumph against adversaries by an injury ravaged team. Pant played some outstanding knocks, but that is the way he bats. Did he draw any inspiration from Parthiv Patel 2003 ?

Ishant Sharma was around the test in both periods so clearly he had a huge impact on Bumrah overcoming the daemons in Australia!

 

[subshakerz]

Ishant Sharma was around the test in both periods so clearly he had a huge impact on Bumrah overcoming the daemons in Australia!

That wasn't Ishant around Bumrah. It was clearly some alien posing as him which explains why he could bowl so well all of a sudden.