The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[The Sean]

Bobby Simpson says "Hello?"

Ha ha, my sentiments exactly - possibly the finest slipper of all.

 

[kyear2]

Was edited in, yes he was, and a very underrated opener.
Just an over sight on my part.

 

[kyear2]

Three of the finest slippers ever, Taylor, Waugh and Richardson probably just misses on on the batsman side.

Over all probably between Sobers, Chappell, Lara and Hammond, don't think Viv was quite up there as an elite slip fielder as compared to in the covers.

 

[SJS]

It is even more difficult to compare the great slip fielders from different eras than it is with batsmen and bowlers. Lets just accept that Hammond, Simpson, Mark Taylor, Mark Waugh etc. were all truly great slip fielders. There is no point in trying to rank them. Inany event it cant be done objectively

 

[Satyanash89]

Dravid probably deserves a mention too... for the majority of his long career he was an exceptional slipper. Dropped a bunch of catches towards the end but was otherwise safe as a house... comfortably better than Lara and Gavaskar imo

 

[SJS]

Dravid probably deserves a mention too... for the majority of his long career he was an exceptional slipper. Dropped a bunch of catches towards the end but was otherwise safe as a house... comfortably better than Lara and Gavaskar imo

Dravid is amongst the finest slip fielders the game has known. The top slip fielders have been known to be those whose anticipation was so good that they ended up making the catches easier than they look when another fielder reacts late and then dives acrobatically to look awesom when he holds it and gets accolades like "what an awesome effort" when he fails.

Dravid also comes from a country with a poor tradition in fast bowling. Invariably great slip fielders (including all those with great catching stats) come from teams with powerful pace attacks. Dravid comes from a country where spinners continued to be the major wicket takers for his entire career. Of course, spinners too get people caught at slips but nowhere near as often as the pacers do. Great spinners, as the Indian trio of the 60's and 70's do produce close in catches but a very large number of them are squarer to the wicket which is why Solkar, that great close in fielder, standing in the short leg cordon has nearly 2 catches per Test.

Dravid has 1.28.

In the 100 Test catches club of 30 (so far) Dravid's C/T ratio is 10th. This is remarkable considering that of the nine players above him, only Jayawardane comes from a team without a great pace attack.

[B]Player        	 Country	 Career	 Tests	 Catches	C/T

[/B]Simpson, R B	 Australia	 1957-1978	62	110	1.77
Fleming, S P	 New Zealand	 1994-2008	111	171	1.54
Taylor, M A	 Australia	 1989-1999	104	157	1.51
Smith, G C*	 South Africa	 2002-       	107	152	1.42
Waugh, M E	 Australia	 1991-2002	128	181	1.41
Jayawardene	 Sri Lanka	 1997-       	138	194	1.41
Chappell, G S	 Australia	 1970-1984	88	122	1.39
Chappell, I M	 Australia	 1964-1980	76	105	1.38
Hammond, W R	 England	 1927-1947	85	110	1.29
Dravid, R	 India        	 1996-2012	164	210	1.28

 

[kyear2]

Dravid and Mahela will be included, but dob't agree that Dravid was better than either, Mahela is just brilliant and Lara took some spectacular grabs off the quicks and the ocasional spinner and was very cobsistent as well.

 

[The Sean]

At the risk of being an uber-pedant, the Chappell brothers both played one fewer Test than the table above shows, so their ratios will improve slightly.

 

[smash84]

 

[SJS]

At the risk of being an uber-pedant, the Chappell brothers both played one fewer Test than the table above shows, so their ratios will improve slightly.

Are you sure ?

Greg Chappell

Ian Chappell

 

[Prince EWS]

Are you sure ?

Greg Chappell

Ian Chappell

Every other online source seems to disagree with those numbers though; perhaps HowStat has decided something should have been a Test match even though it officially wasn't?

 

[Prince EWS]

Figured it out. HowStat thinks this was a Test but CricInfo/CricketArchive etc doesn't count it as one because it was abandoned without a ball being bowled. I reckon it was one, tbh, because there was a toss, but there you go.

 

[Prince EWS]

Whilst the Australian Board of Control recognised this match as an official Test to be included in match statistics, nearly all statisticians around the world do not do so.

 

[The Sean]

Yeah, I knew that was considered a Test by some, but hasn't realised it was in any way official or taken seriously by anybody.

 

[kyear2]

Garry Sobers
Greg Chappell
Wally Hammond
Brian Lara
Rickey Ponting
Viv Richards
Jacques Kallis
Neil Harvey
Everton Weekes
Bobby Simpson
Sunil Gavaskar
Clive Lloyd
Bruce Mitchell
Allan Border
Barry Richards
Matthew Hayden
Graeme Pollock
Rahul Dravid
Mahela Jawawardene
Mark Waugh
Richie Richardson
Mark Taylor

All Rounders
Ian Botham
Keith Miller
Tony Greig
Andrew Flintoff
Trevor Goddard

 

[Coronis]

Does anyone happen to know what position Procter fielded at? He did take 300+ catches in first class, but I've been unable to find out where he fielded..

 

[kyear2]

I have read others say that he fielded in the slips, but have been unable to independently verify that.

 

[MartinB]

Every other online source seems to disagree with those numbers though; perhaps HowStat has decided something should have been a Test match even though it officially wasn't?

There was the match in the 70/71 season against England that was washed out with out a ball being bowled, an extra match was added to the series as a replacement. This washed out match is for the most part is not counted in Test match stats. This could be the difference.

 

[Jager]

My old man fondly remembers seeing Neil Harvey take "the greatest catch [he'd] ever seen". I said Harvey basically did a headstand as he leapt sideways and rolled after taking the catch - something very imaginable when it comes to a batsman like him, nimble and graceful.

 

[kyear2]

Is Steyn approaching the point where he will be seen as a better bowler than Donald, or does some believe he is past him already?