The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[kyear2]

McWarne vs Murashall is a tantalising prospect.

I honestly believe the batting is just about equal.

The bowling on the southern hemisphere just looks better though. IsTrueman better than Ambrose though? I rate Sir Curtly higher, but asking for opinions.

 

[trundler]

Trueman must've played on some dead West Indian pitches. Came out averaging well enough. Did well in England and Australia too. Took a high percentage of his wickets at home but he was no Anderson. I'd have him ahead of Lillee, just.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Trueman was as good as any fast bowler there’s been. He reckons he was done out of 150 Test wickets by selectors leaving him out for non cricketing reasons.

 

[kyear2]

Trueman must've played on some dead West Indian pitches. Came out averaging well enough. Did well in England and Australia too. Took a high percentage of his wickets at home but he was no Anderson. I'd have him ahead of Lillee, just.

They were pancake flat and he was playing against some stacked batting lineups.

 

[_00_deathscar]

McWarne vs Murashall is a tantalising prospect.

Not really - Warne is getting spanked by that Northern Hemisphere middle order.

 

[kyear2]

Trueman was as good as any fast bowler there’s been. He reckons he was done out of 150 Test wickets by selectors leaving him out for non cricketing reasons.

I agree and he is definitely in my top 10, for this team though who would you chose him or Ambrose?

 

[a massive zebra]

The bowling on the southern hemisphere just looks better though.

Not really. Perhaps the southern hemisphere attack has more depth, but the top two Northern Hemisphere bowlers (Marshall and Murali) are better than anything the southern hemisphere has to offer IMO.

 

[a massive zebra]

I agree and he is definitely in my top 10, for this team though who would you chose him or Ambrose?

Toss of a coin.

 

[Slifer]

Afaic, the bowlers pretty much cancel each other out. MM/ Trueman vs McGrath/Steyn. Not much to choose there. Only a coat of varnish separates imran from Hadlee ( with Hadlee being a little better imo). Warne vs murali is of course a toss up.

Batting

Hobbs/Hutton >> Hayden/Richards
Bradman/Pollock/Smith/Kallis > Viv/Lara/Srt/Gary
Imran/knott/Marshall = Gilchrist/Hadlee/warne

Nobody cares about the rest when it comes to batting. Pretty even teams. Well done kyear

 

[Slifer]

Second Xi looks interesting as well:

Gavaskar
Sutcliffe
Headley
Hammond
Dravid
Kohli*
Sangakarra+
Wasim
Ambrose
Laker
Garner

Vs

G Smith
Trumper
Ponting
Chappell
Border*
Miller
DeVilliers +
Davidson
Donald
Lillee
Oreilly

 

[kyear2]

Afaic, the bowlers pretty much cancel each other out. MM/ Trueman vs McGrath/Steyn. Not much to choose there. Only a coat of varnish separates imran from Hadlee ( with Hadlee being a little better imo). Warne vs murali is of course a toss up.

Batting

Hobbs/Hutton >> Hayden/Richards
Bradman/Pollock/Smith/Kallis > Viv/Lara/Srt/Gary
Imran/knott/Marshall = Gilchrist/Hadlee/warne

Nobody cares about the rest when it comes to batting. Pretty even teams. Well done kyear

Don't think the middle order is automatic for the south.

Yes, Bradman > Viv
Pollock < Tendulkar
Smith < Lara
Kallis < Sobers

I think the middle order is basically even. Batting wise Gilly is better than Imran, so if we are including down to 7, then possibly.

But yeah. Finally found a way to make two even and fairly non arbitrary teams to out up against each other.

No idea who would win. Neither cordon perfect, but good enough with 3rd slip being the biggest liability.

Gilchrist, Hayden, Smith, Warne
Knott, Lara, Sobers, Richards

 

[Slifer]

Don't think the middle order is automatic for the south.

Yes, Bradman > Viv
Pollock < Tendulkar
Smith < Lara
Kallis < Sobers

I think the middle order is basically even. Batting wise Gilly is better than Imran, so if we are including down to 7, then possibly.

But yeah. Finally found a way to make two even and fairly non arbitrary teams to out up against each other.

No idea who would win. Neither cordon perfect, but good enough with 3rd slip being the biggest liability.

Gilchrist, Hayden, Smith, Warne
Knott, Lara, Sobers, Richards

The gap between all the other middle order batsmen is minute. As a matter of fact, smith over lara is a reasonable shout. But Bradman>>viv. No two ways about that, therefore the south takes the middle order.

 

[stephen]

Lol. Smith is better than Lara.

Bradman and Smith give the Southern hemisphere two batsmen who are better than any from the northern hemisphere.

I also don't trust that anyone with an average of under 40 is going to reliably make runs against an ATG attack, so Imran isn't going to score huge amounts of runs in this matchup.

Bowling attacks for both sides are roughly equal, the southern hemisphere has better batting.

 

[a massive zebra]

Lol. Smith is better than Lara.

Bradman and Smith give the Southern hemisphere two batsmen who are better than any from the northern hemisphere.

Lara at his best is as good as anyone ever. But yes, Smith is hungrier for runs and much more consistent.

Let's wait until the end of Smith's career before declaring him as a superior bat than all the northern hemisphere players. Yes, his record is better at the moment, but both Hobbs and Sobers averaged in excess of 60 over more years of Test cricket than Smith has played, and then declined somewhat towards the end of their careers.

At the end of 1928, after 20 years of Test cricket, Jack Hobbs Test average was 60.08. At the end of 1971, after 17 years of Test cricket, Garry Sobers Test average was 59.94. Amazingly as Smith has done, he has played less than a decade and is only a handful of runs ahead.

 

[Slifer]

Awta. But if for some reason steve Smith stops playing test cricket right now, he's in with a good shout for 2nd best ever. He'd certainly be Australia's 2nd best imho

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I agree and he is definitely in my top 10, for this team though who would you chose him or Ambrose?

Trueman. He and Marshall are my two. But there are so many very closely matched.

 

[Coronis]

Very true wrt Smith. But the point about the batting does remain. The differences between the rest of the middle order are dwarfed by Bradman. The openers up north are clearly superior, but Gilchrist is clearly superior to Knott. You’d expect over a 5 match series, Bradman would be the clear difference between the sides.

 

[bagapath]

From those not selected yet..

Northern hemisphere

WG Grace
Sehwag
Compton
Miandad
Weekes
Shakib
Dhoni (wk/c)
Akram
Holding
Garner
Laker

Southern hemisphere

Simpson (c)
Langer
Amla
Williamson
Andy Flower
Faulkner
McCullum (wk)
S Pollock
Lindwall
Rabada
O'Reilley

 

[kyear2]

Lol. Smith is better than Lara.

Bradman and Smith give the Southern hemisphere two batsmen who are better than any from the northern hemisphere.

I also don't trust that anyone with an average of under 40 is going to reliably make runs against an ATG attack, so Imran isn't going to score huge amounts of runs in this matchup.

Bowling attacks for both sides are roughly equal, the southern hemisphere has better batting.

Ok, first of all, agree with you statement re players with averages under 40.
Also agree Bradman is better than any other batsman that either team has.

What I can't grasp is how after 60 odd tests in Smith somehow the 2nd best batsman ever. Forget Sobers, Vivian and Sachin, I don't see how we can already rate him above Hobbs, Hutton and Lara. Seriously
I recall saying the same thing about Ponting at some point as well. Yes he is great, but 2nd best already? He is still in his prime, let's see how he responds to the test of time..

 

[TheJediBrah]

Very true. By the end of his career Smith may well have dropped down to 3rd best batsman of all time behind Voges