• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread (white ball edition)

vcs

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I think Englands poorness in ODIs is more of a meme than anything. They were ranked number one as late as 95.

98-2002 is approximately Zims strongest period, and England were still winning nearly twice as much as them.

Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
They were fairly rubbish IMO. They didn't seem to participate in any of the tri-series cups that were ubiquitous around that time, and they were crap in World Cups as well after '92.

India were rubbish as well, but they masked their rubbishness by playing so many of those tri-series that they managed to win a few along the way.
 

Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
They were fairly rubbish IMO. They didn't seem to participate in any of the tri-series cups that were ubiquitous around that time, and they were crap in World Cups as well after '92.

India were rubbish as well, but they masked their rubbishness by playing so many of those tri-series that they managed to win a few along the way.
They certainly werent good. Poor is probably the right description.But I think that a part of why they were mocked is because they fell from close to the best to being one of the worst top teams.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Both only played 98-2000. Strang also retired in 2001, so maybe 2002 is a bit late. Neither their nor Englands win ratios change very much for 98-2000 though.

Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
So my memory is right that South Africa were the best team in that period even though Australia won 99 world cup. It's only after that somewhat surprise win that Australia started growing stronger, becoming almost invincible by the next world cup.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
That is pretty fair. I think Aus really hit ODI greatness once Ponting took over. As good as Waugh was, his team were well matched in that period. Once Ponting took over and brought in guys like Hussey and Symonds and made blokes like Martyn more regular and with Brett Lee coming in, they became unstoppable.
 

Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
RSA were very strong in the mid 90 when AUS werent great.

Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

RSA were winning a lot in the 3 years before that period. The shift was pretty gradual, with AUS pulling slightly ahead by 2000 and a long way ahead in 2003, which is also arguably when India were pulling ahead of RSA.

RSAs 90s record is pretty impressive when you account for the fact that it took them some time to find their feet- they won a whole lot more than anyone else even after the slow start.

Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
I remember India winning a bunch of ODIs against Australia in India in late 90s, probably 60:40 or 70:30 win:loss ratio. But we couldn't beat SA at all even at home.
 

vcs

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Main reason for that was that SA usually managed to keep Sachin relatively quiet, which Australia never did.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
That is pretty fair. I think Aus really hit ODI greatness once Ponting took over. As good as Waugh was, his team were well matched in that period. Once Ponting took over and brought in guys like Hussey and Symonds and made blokes like Martyn more regular and with Brett Lee coming in, they became unstoppable.
There's a lot of truth to this. Symonds and Lee came in well before Ponting took over, but Symonds didn't become any good until 2003 and reportedly a big part of that was him being backed by Ponting. Martyn was also quite regular under Waugh but him moving to no. 4 just before Ponting took over helped him. Hussey didn't come in until 2005/06 either when Aus were already pretty unbeatable.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Yeah but Hussey took them from great to ATG IMO. And yeah, Symonds, Watson, Martyn all brought their best under Ponting more than Waugh. That is why I strongly feel an Aussie ATG ODI XI should always be led by Ponting. I have my issues about his captaincy being over rated in tests but for ODIs, he was top tier.
 

MrPrez

International Debutant
On the topic of SA...

1. de Kock +
2. Smith
3. Amla
4. de Villiers
5. Kallis
6. Gibbs
7. Klusener
8. Pollock
9. Steyn
10. Tahir
11. Donald

2nd XI

1. Kirsten
2 Wessels
3. Cullinan
4. Cronje
5. Duminy
6. Miller/Rhodes/Kemp
7. Boucher
8. Rabada/Botha
9,. F de Villiers
10. Morkel.
11. Ntini

2nd XI bowling is still very good. Batting though... I feel I must be missing some guys out because if that's truly the best we can come up with.

I probably should just have McMillan at 6 tbh as a genuine fifth bowling option. But I just wasn't a fan of his ODI performances.As it stands, Duminy and Cronje will need to shoulder the fifth bowling, which is far from ideal.

I feel like Rhodes should definitely be in the team but I struggle to put him ahead of Miller without any other true finishers (Boucher is sort of but not in the same way) in the line-up. And Duminy/Cronje offer bowling.

I think if I just took the plunge and played McMillan at 6 I'd be choosing between Miller and Rhodes for the 5 spot.

Botha offers batting and spin; Rabada offers better bowling.Tough to call on that one.
 

Flem274*

123/5
shane bond is the second quick picked in that 00s side every day of the week. brett 'free runs at the death' lee can take a hike
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
So my memory is right that South Africa were the best team in that period even though Australia won 99 world cup. It's only after that somewhat surprise win that Australia started growing stronger, becoming almost invincible by the next world cup.
They had a massive issue playing SL in SL, as did we had playing n SAF. 96-98 period SL were as good or even better than SAF.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
shane bond is the second quick picked in that 00s side every day of the week. brett 'free runs at the death' lee can take a hike
Bond on ability, Lee on career.

Lee could be expensive but the bloke did average 23 in the format, which is ATG territory. It was pretty funny though that he played virtually everything due to fitness except the 07 world cup and Tait came into the side and performed Lee's role perfectly.
 

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
Win/loss ratios (1996 - 1999)

South Africa: 3.666
Australia: 1.386
Pakistan: 1.290
Sri Lanka: 1.224
West Indies: 1.000
India: 0.906
England: 0.756
New Zealand: 0.755
Zimbabwe: 0.574

This is a pretty insane statistic. The Proteas were smashing it in the late 90's, winning 77 out of 102 ODIs played during the timeframe. Incredibly the Windies seem to have won exactly 50% of their matches played during these years.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Win/loss ratios (1996 - 1999)

South Africa: 3.666
Australia: 1.386
Pakistan: 1.290
Sri Lanka: 1.224
West Indies: 1.000
India: 0.906
England: 0.756
New Zealand: 0.755
Zimbabwe: 0.574

This is a pretty insane statistic. The Proteas were smashing it in the late 90's, winning 77 out of 102 ODIs played during the timeframe. Incredibly the Windies seem to have won exactly 50% of their matches played during these years.
Against Australia they went 11-7 during that time as well. And that includes three losses on the trot in the lead up to the 99 semi final.
 

Top