HouHsiaoHsien
International 12th Man
It was flat for sure, but I mean Smith wasn’t able to do much. So it’s not as if, serving up a flat deck ensures you a century. And he was batting well in Delhi as well.
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The “Fab” 3
- Thread starter Coronis
- Start date
Coronis
Cricketer Of The Year
It was just a joke about how Smith has been better than them
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Ok, its a slow rainy day and I had some time to kill. You can refer to the spreadsheet I am linking to here.
Few interesting trends emerge -
The early years (till 2014) -
Smith and Root were clearly ahead of both KW and Virat, averaging 50+ to the 40 and 44 from KW and Virat respectively. Smith and Virat were also scoring their runs at a reasonably faster clip (25%) than KW and Root. Should be noted though that both Smith and Root only played 20 odd tests compared to 38 by KW and 32 by Virat.
The Fab 4 Peak (2015-2019) -
Smith pulled ahead here but not by as much as we may think. He averaged 70 but Virat and Kane were not far behind with 62. Root fell off a bit of a cliff at this point, maybe lending credence to @Burgey s theory that he is just not that good against top class bowling, averaging 48 @ 58. He also played almost 70 tests compared to 50 odd from Virat and 40 odd from Kane and Steve Smith. Maybe its test spam causing the differential, maybe its the consistently high quality bowling era.
Special mention to Virat striking his 62 avg @ 62 SR as well, which is a reasonable distance ahead of the 56-58 range of the other 3. Virat also played the 2nd most games in this period.
The Covid and post Covid years (2020- Nov 2023) -
KW has hit a bit of a peak here, averaging 74 @ 51, but its also just 17 games. Root is somehow striking slower inspite of the last year and a half of Bazball (53 @ 53) but has also played more than thrice the games KW has played. Smith has come crashing down past the hump, averaging 48 @ 48 over 30 games in this period. But of course, the big story is how bad Virat has been in this period, averaging 32 over 27 games striking at 45, which is slower than even Steve Smith who seemed to have slowed down to turtle speed in this period.
Overall thoughts -
Smith definitely is ahead in this 4 way race so far, but again he is really not in front by as much as some may assume looking at raw numbers. Root, for some inexplicable reason, hit that trough when the other 3 were all at their peak and you would expect, by general wisdom, any batsman to be at their best in this period. Most batsmen who debut between 20-23 usually hit their peak around 26-32 and yet somehow Root was at his worst in this patch. KW has continued being great post covid which has not been the case with Virat and Smith, while Root has had a renaissance. Virat's fall off the cliff is possibly a bit easier to explain as he seems to be the most technically vulnerable batsman in this group and the stop/start nature of cricket across the pandemic years can easily take a toll on someone who depends so much on rhythm batting like Virat.
If we have to rank them now, I will go -
Smith > KW > Root > Virat.
But like I said earlier, their careers are not done yet and I fully expect them to switch places a bit more before they all hang up their boots. If I have to guess, I expect all 4 to land in the tier below Lara/Sachin amongst the batsmen I have seen and KW and Smith to lead this group within that tier. Wont rule out another late charge by Virat, while Joe Root will continue to do Joe Root things and English test spam will mean both his good spells and bad spells will always be accentuated due to that.
Attaching the spreadsheet for those who are interested in the numbers. And anyone who replies with OK to this post shall be reborn as Rob Quiney in their next birth.
Few interesting trends emerge -
The early years (till 2014) -
Smith and Root were clearly ahead of both KW and Virat, averaging 50+ to the 40 and 44 from KW and Virat respectively. Smith and Virat were also scoring their runs at a reasonably faster clip (25%) than KW and Root. Should be noted though that both Smith and Root only played 20 odd tests compared to 38 by KW and 32 by Virat.
The Fab 4 Peak (2015-2019) -
Smith pulled ahead here but not by as much as we may think. He averaged 70 but Virat and Kane were not far behind with 62. Root fell off a bit of a cliff at this point, maybe lending credence to @Burgey s theory that he is just not that good against top class bowling, averaging 48 @ 58. He also played almost 70 tests compared to 50 odd from Virat and 40 odd from Kane and Steve Smith. Maybe its test spam causing the differential, maybe its the consistently high quality bowling era.
Special mention to Virat striking his 62 avg @ 62 SR as well, which is a reasonable distance ahead of the 56-58 range of the other 3. Virat also played the 2nd most games in this period.The Covid and post Covid years (2020- Nov 2023) -
KW has hit a bit of a peak here, averaging 74 @ 51, but its also just 17 games. Root is somehow striking slower inspite of the last year and a half of Bazball (53 @ 53) but has also played more than thrice the games KW has played. Smith has come crashing down past the hump, averaging 48 @ 48 over 30 games in this period. But of course, the big story is how bad Virat has been in this period, averaging 32 over 27 games striking at 45, which is slower than even Steve Smith who seemed to have slowed down to turtle speed in this period.
Overall thoughts -
Smith definitely is ahead in this 4 way race so far, but again he is really not in front by as much as some may assume looking at raw numbers. Root, for some inexplicable reason, hit that trough when the other 3 were all at their peak and you would expect, by general wisdom, any batsman to be at their best in this period. Most batsmen who debut between 20-23 usually hit their peak around 26-32 and yet somehow Root was at his worst in this patch. KW has continued being great post covid which has not been the case with Virat and Smith, while Root has had a renaissance. Virat's fall off the cliff is possibly a bit easier to explain as he seems to be the most technically vulnerable batsman in this group and the stop/start nature of cricket across the pandemic years can easily take a toll on someone who depends so much on rhythm batting like Virat.
If we have to rank them now, I will go -
Smith > KW > Root > Virat.
But like I said earlier, their careers are not done yet and I fully expect them to switch places a bit more before they all hang up their boots. If I have to guess, I expect all 4 to land in the tier below Lara/Sachin amongst the batsmen I have seen and KW and Smith to lead this group within that tier. Wont rule out another late charge by Virat, while Joe Root will continue to do Joe Root things and English test spam will mean both his good spells and bad spells will always be accentuated due to that.
Attaching the spreadsheet for those who are interested in the numbers. And anyone who replies with OK to this post shall be reborn as Rob Quiney in their next birth.
Gob
International Coach
This surprise me because the last 3 tests he played in Australia, he could barely hit it out of the square. I assume that knock on the mother of all road in Perth skews his stats
Gob
International Coach
I think Root probably has done the most work here. England play a lot obvs but the sheer accumulation of runs should have him at the top.
Also weird to think that by 2019, Kohli had 27 tons. Had he made 3 tons per year since (which is pretty standard I think given the amount of tests India play), he'd be closing in on 40 and we could have been arguing whether he can break Tendulkar's record for tons in tests too
Also weird to think that by 2019, Kohli had 27 tons. Had he made 3 tons per year since (which is pretty standard I think given the amount of tests India play), he'd be closing in on 40 and we could have been arguing whether he can break Tendulkar's record for tons in tests too
capt_Luffy
International Debutant
Given Virat's recent form (albeit in ODIs) I really expect him to make a strong comeback, from January onwards against England.Ok, its a slow rainy day and I had some time to kill. You can refer to the spreadsheet I am linking to here.
Few interesting trends emerge -
The early years (till 2014) -
Smith and Root were clearly ahead of both KW and Virat, averaging 50+ to the 40 and 44 from KW and Virat respectively. Smith and Virat were also scoring their runs at a reasonably faster clip (25%) than KW and Root. Should be noted though that both Smith and Root only played 20 odd tests compared to 38 by KW and 32 by Virat.
The Fab 4 Peak (2015-2019) -
Smith pulled ahead here but not by as much as we may think. He averaged 70 but Virat and Kane were not far behind with 62. Root fell off a bit of a cliff at this point, maybe lending credence to @Burgey s theory that he is just not that good against top class bowling, averaging 48 @ 58. He also played almost 70 tests compared to 50 odd from Virat and 40 odd from Kane and Steve Smith. Maybe its test spam causing the differential, maybe its the consistently high quality bowling era.
The Covid and post Covid years (2020- Nov 2023) -
KW has hit a bit of a peak here, averaging 74 @ 51, but its also just 17 games. Root is somehow striking slower inspite of the last year and a half of Bazball (53 @ 53) but has also played more than thrice the games KW has played. Smith has come crashing down past the hump, averaging 48 @ 48 over 30 games in this period. But of course, the big story is how bad Virat has been in this period, averaging 32 over 27 games striking at 45, which is slower than even Steve Smith who seemed to have slowed down to turtle speed in this period.
Overall thoughts -
Smith definitely is ahead in this 4 way race so far, but again he is really not in front by as much as some may assume looking at raw numbers. Root, for some inexplicable reason, hit that trough when the other 3 were all at their peak and you would expect, by general wisdom, any batsman to be at their best in this period. Most batsmen who debut between 20-23 usually hit their peak around 26-32 and yet somehow Root was at his worst in this patch. KW has continued being great post covid which has not been the case with Virat and Smith, while Root has had a renaissance. Virat's fall off the cliff is possibly a bit easier to explain as he seems to be the most technically vulnerable batsman in this group and the stop/start nature of cricket across the pandemic years can easily take a toll on someone who depends so much on rhythm batting like Virat.
If we have to rank them now, I will go -
Smith > KW > Root > Virat.
But like I said earlier, their careers are not done yet and I fully expect them to switch places a bit more before they all hang up their boots. If I have to guess, I expect all 4 to land in the tier below Lara/Sachin amongst the batsmen I have seen and KW and Smith to lead this group within that tier. Wont rule out another late charge by Virat, while Joe Root will continue to do Joe Root things and English test spam will mean both his good spells and bad spells will always be accentuated due to that.
Attaching the spreadsheet for those who are interested in the numbers. And anyone who replies with OK to this post shall be reborn as Rob Quiney in their next birth.
Flem274*
123/5
OverratedSanity
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Tour of SA who always roll out nightmare tracks for us haha.
Kohli has always done well there though (his 2018 tour there was one of the best I've seen in a crazy low scoring series) so hope it continues.
capt_Luffy
International Debutant
In December, there are 2 Tests in SA; and England are coming in January for 5....
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Twas a rib tickler for sure.
Coronis
Cricketer Of The Year
I’m just surprised anyone took it seriously.
BazBall21
International Vice-Captain
Kane's opposition breakdown makes gun performances against top teams harder to come by (which isn't his fault), but it is more ideal for his career average.
At home, 40% of Kane's innings have come against Australia, England, India and South Africa.
At home, 73% of Root's innings have come against Australia, New Zealand, India and South Africa.
Kane does bat at 3, but I think that's covered by Root batting in England. That's an admittedly nuanced discussion point, but it's not as though Root has ever had a great top 3 in front of him. His batting support in the particularly tough 2017-2021 period was poor at times. This combined with opposition breakdown and English conditions was quite unforgiving.
Also, don't think Root exactly had a luxurious beginning either. Very arguably not as difficult as Kane's. But he was only 21 when he started out and played nearly half of his first 60 innings' against Australia. Some of that was the 2013/14 tour which was brutal for a young batsman learning his trade as a Test player. Opened in the Ashes a few months earlier too.
At home, 40% of Kane's innings have come against Australia, England, India and South Africa.
At home, 73% of Root's innings have come against Australia, New Zealand, India and South Africa.
Kane does bat at 3, but I think that's covered by Root batting in England. That's an admittedly nuanced discussion point, but it's not as though Root has ever had a great top 3 in front of him. His batting support in the particularly tough 2017-2021 period was poor at times. This combined with opposition breakdown and English conditions was quite unforgiving.
Also, don't think Root exactly had a luxurious beginning either. Very arguably not as difficult as Kane's. But he was only 21 when he started out and played nearly half of his first 60 innings' against Australia. Some of that was the 2013/14 tour which was brutal for a young batsman learning his trade as a Test player. Opened in the Ashes a few months earlier too.
Athlai
Not Terrible
Batting at 3 in NZ vs 4 in England is an interesting comparison in the recent era.
NZ since approx. 2010 has seen the new ball massively swing for maybe the first 30 overs or so and then there is bugger all to challenge the batting. The decks are typically very green but outside of the first session of the first day, batting seems to pretty easy in general.
NZ since approx. 2010 has seen the new ball massively swing for maybe the first 30 overs or so and then there is bugger all to challenge the batting. The decks are typically very green but outside of the first session of the first day, batting seems to pretty easy in general.