Test XI for The Last Quarter Century

[Bolo]

Careful there *****. If he has to justify Buttler you might have to justify picking a side that included AB OR Kohli OR Viv

 

[cnerd123]

And like he actually thinks his XI is better than mine based on nothing

I've been following these debate threads for close to over a decade (**** I'm old) on multiple forums. I've read every article and thread on statistical analysis, I've seen all the DOG lists and Cricrate and all 5000 pages of the ATG thread, like FFS there is some weight of knowledge and experience when I pick this XI. I've got so much thought and experience and knowledge behind it

He sees Jos Butler's SR on cricinfo, bats watto and flintoff out of position, and has the absolute gall to insist his batting lineup is as strong as the one I picked

FFS

 

[cnerd123]

Careful there *****. If he has to justify Buttler you might have to justify picking a side that included AB OR Kohli OR Viv

I am very happy to do so lol. And in the process I might realise i'm wrong and change the lineup I've picked.

But yea, okay. Topic dropped now.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I've been following these debate threads for close to over a decade (**** I'm old) on multiple forums.

**** you're probably like 22 and still live with your parents you're not old, Burgey's old

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I mean sure, I can accept it.

I'm just disappointed he comes into a thread, will put forward a bold opinion, and when challenged about it over pages and pages, his reasoning behind it is ultimately "I like Jos Butler"

Here I was expecting him to have either some really good reason to do with statistics or performances, or to maybe have some really flawed argument that we could tuck into and then maybe change his mind.

But ultimately it all boils down to "Sorry, I just saw he has a higher SR on Cricinfo and I like Jos Butler"

Like if he had just said that off the bat instead of trying to argue that MSD is 'too slow' or that Butler somehow has it in him to smash around ATG bowlers to the same effect, then we wouldn't have got here. But he didn't say that, and so here I thought there was something to be gained from all this. Either he learns and admits he's wrong or we learn something new. But no, nothing.

It's just so disappointing. And the same goes for batting Watto and Flintoff in the middle order, or dropping McGrath. Like he makes all these selections, and goes around posting like he's this smart guy who can discuss law with professional lawyers and will 'crunch the numbers' on how much Rashid Khan will spin the ball - to see that he actually puts so little thought into that team and is then still willing to defend it...urgh

Really feels like I've wasted my time here.

1 - I said my team first posted was a pretty quick effort, 1993 to 2018 was a new time frame. It is normally ATG only. I have since made changes with further thought. Buttler stays for what I reasonably believe is his superior striking over Dhoni.
2 - What has me discussing law with professional lawyers got to do with anything?
3 - What does me looking forward to a compare of Rashid Khan in the world cup for speed vs rpm with different leg spinners in the WC next year (should he play) have to do with anything?

*****, I am not the topic of conversation. Buttler and Dhoni are for you. Stay on point please.

 

[cnerd123]

**** you're probably like 22 and still live with your parents you're not old, Burgey's old

Burgey was old before ODIs even began

 

[Mr Miyagi]

And like he actually thinks his XI is better than mine based on nothing

I've been following these debate threads for close to over a decade (**** I'm old) on multiple forums. I've read every article and thread on statistical analysis, I've seen all the DOG lists and Cricrate and all 5000 pages of the ATG thread, like FFS there is some weight of knowledge and experience when I pick this XI. I've got so much thought and experience and knowledge behind it

He sees Jos Butler's SR on cricinfo, bats watto and flintoff out of position, and has the absolute gall to insist his batting lineup is as strong as the one I picked

FFS

Is this seriously the problem you're having?

Do you not see that people can have differing reasonable opinions?

Do you really see ATG teams as a competition? Like people voting on draft team winners?

People have different philosophies on things *****, as long as they're reasonable, people will have personal preferences.

I have complimented many teams in this thread with many differences to mine. I don't see this as a competition ***** because it isn't one.

 

[cnerd123]

Is this seriously the problem you're having?

Do you not see that people can have differing reasonable opinions?

Do you really see ATG teams as a competition? Like people voting on draft team winners?

People have different philosophies on things *****, as long as they're reasonable, people will have personal preferences.

Normally I expect if someone thinks something that they have good rationale behind thinking that, and if they think different to me then I like it when they explain why, so that I can learn from them. You aren't doing that.

If you don't wan't to, it's fine. I'm not interested now. This has gone on long enough. Let it go.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Normally I expect if someone thinks something that they have good rationale behind thinking that, and if they think different to me then I like it when they explain why, so that I can learn from them. You aren't doing that.

No I have done that. You now want me to go further into the malaise of discussing differing eras with you. I told you, start a new thread, I'll share my views if and when I feel inclined to.

 

[Bolo]

Moving the topic back a few pages (kinda) to the McGrath vs AB discussion, I want to know about Garner vs Viv. Any one know how they went against each other in domestic LO?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Not quite what you asked but here's early AB v McGrath in 2007 WC Semi:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1tttg

Not sure if it actually shows him facing McGrath though, because at work and not going to watch it. Just match highlights.

AB survived McGrath only to get out to Shaun Tait (who was a good bowler for about a combined total of about 3.5 weeks in his career, the rest he was trash. Luckily most of the 2007 WC matches fell into that 3.5 week period)

 

[Burgey]

Is this seriously the problem you're having?

Do you not see that people can have differing reasonable opinions?

Do you really see ATG teams as a competition? Like people voting on draft team winners?

People have different philosophies on things *****, as long as they're reasonable, people will have personal preferences.

I have complimented many teams in this thread with many differences to mine. I don't see this as a competition ***** because it isn't one.

Yeah *****.

 

[Burgey]

Normally I expect if someone thinks something that they have good rationale behind thinking that, and if they think different to me then I like it when they explain why, so that I can learn from them. You aren't doing that.

If you don't wan't to, it's fine. I'm not interested now. This has gone on long enough. Let it go.

Yeah Mr Miyagi.

 

[Bolo]

Other than speculation about what might have been, AB vs McGrath is moot. 2007 AB is not ab.

 

[TheJediBrah]

2007 AB is not ab.

Yeah he retired in 1994

/burgey

 

[Burgey]

You could argue 2007 McGrath wasn't McGrath either.

 

[stephen]

Dude, in mid 2018, Kohli is locking that #3 spot for me from 1993 post Viv.

And Gilly, well for me personally, is behind Butler, prolly de Kock and fighting with Dhoni at best.

Gilly was great in 2007 with his squash balls and rep.

But now, he's like, 35.84 at 97.

de Kock is like 45.41 at 93.98

Dhonis is 51.37 at 88.40

And Butler is like 38.05 at 118.

Gilly is no certainty these days.

He's like Bell Bottom pants, huge in his era, and every guy wanted a piece of them, but now, not so much.

Cricket has moved on.

I like new direction, with or without squash balls.

Honestly this is ridiculous.

Gilly came from an era of lower scores and predominantly played on Australian pitches. Despite their reputation for being flat in tests, Australian ODI grounds (the big 5 at least) result in lower scores on average than anywhere else in the world due to their larger boundaries.

You have too adjust for that in your reckoning of Australian ODI batsmen/ bowlers. Nearly every Australian batsman from the era of dominance (late 90s-07) had a worse strike rate at home than overseas.

I have no doubt that if Gilly played today he'd be seen as a much better batsman than Buttler because he is. Without taking into account that he also kept at a very high standard.

I also think Ponting would be closer to Kohli in ODI cricket if he played today than what it looks like on paper.

FWIW my ODI team for the last 25 years is:

Tendulkar (6)
Gilchrist (wk)
Ponting (c)
Kohli
De Villiers
Bevan
Symonds (5)
Pollock (3)
Wasim (2)
Warne (4)
McGrath (1)

IMO you can't leave out McGrath based on his WC record alone. Pollock shades Waqar/Lee/Bracken etc due to his batting. Warne pips Murali for the same reason. Symonds over Klusener for his versatility. The rest of the team picks itself.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I have no doubt that if Gilly played today he'd be seen as a much better batsman than Buttler because he is. Without taking into account that he also kept at a very high standard.

My team was not about who was the better batsman between Gilly and Buttler.

I chose Tendulkar and Amla over Gilchrist or de Kock (or Jayasuriya for that matter) as the better batsmen to open.

After that, it was between Buttler and Dhoni. I chose Buttler, as ridiculous you may think it to be.

 

[cnerd123]

You're late to the thread Stephen

Mr. Miyagi is entitled to pick who he likes and doesn't have to justify his selections to anyone. If you want him to engage in a discussion about adjusting stats for eras, you'll need to make a new thread, and then he will only engage you if he's inclined to do so

If you don't like his posts you can block him.

That's where we landed.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Gilchrist in ODIs in 2018 would be ****ing scary

I loved those flip shots for 6 he'd smash down the ground. He'd just wander down the wicket to the spinners and scoop the bat at the ball and somehow it would fly 100+ metres, over the sightscreen. Brilliant keeper too, unfortunate how often that gets overlooked because everyone focuses on his batting so much.