Tendency to quote freak stats out of context !!

[tooextracool]

It's obviously very unlikely, but then it's pretty unlikely that someone like Ponting would average 12 in India too.

even though thats precisely whats happened?

Say Murali was woefully out of form or carrying an injury or some other bowler had an awesome series and he only managed 10@40 across 3 tests. His average then would still be 52.67 in Australia from 5 tests. Far from a great record, and it's not so unlikely that I would call it totally impossible. The Australians handled him pretty well in Sri Lanka on some big turners, and if they play him like that again and the pitches are flat and he has a bit of bad luck, he could easily have an average series, given that they happen to every bowler from time to time. It doesn't make him any less of an all-time great.

if murali were carrying an injury, i think its fairly obvious that it cant be used against him. ponting was fully fit and he cant be complaining about form because hes had 4 different series to change that.
as far as murali being woefully out of form is concerned, just look at his record, the last time he averaged over 40 in a series was in 97 against india. i dont see it happening at all, especially if he ends up playing a test at sydney. and even if he does average 50 in australia at the end of his career, i dont think its as poor as averaging 12 with the bat. you'd expect part timers to average those numbers.

 

[tooextracool]

The four tests in 2001 where he had a shocking run in India he was in shocking form and was almost dropped during the Ashes series (the next series). He was in great form before the team left for India last year, but due to unfortunate circumstances could not play in the first 3 tests, however he did play in the last where anyone who got off the mark could consider themselves lucky. It is not as cut and dry as it appears.

thats only one test, he cant be blamed for failure in that one, but he certainly missed his opportunity. he could have managed a 50 in that test and proved to everyone that he was capable, and they were players that scored 50s in that game, but he didnt. its not the best chance he got, but certainly when you've missed out on the previous 7 you have to take these chances.

 

[SJS]

Murali has had oporitunity to Play in Australia since than but chickened out!

Some others who have "chickened out" in the past !!

England GREATS who chickened out from touring India.: Hutton, May, Compton, Tyson, Trueman, Bedser, Laker, Godfrey Evans

Australian GREATS "chickened out" from touring India : Lillee, Thomson, Marsh, Greg Chappell, Miller.

I am sure there are others

 

[Steulen]

The most brilliant (and common) example of out-of-context stats is when it is said of player X: "He was talismanic/instrumental/whathaveyou to the team: averaging 54 when they won and 27 when they lost". Duh....
CricInfo's daily list of past events uses this all the time.

 

[Robertinho]

Yes and because nearly all his points are stunningly well written and supported.

Please, save the fellatio for afterwards. We have kids here, ok?

Anyway, SJS, pretty much on the money, but whilst statistics might not tell the whole story, they tell a fair bit of it!

 

[honestbharani]

no its not, i dont expect players to succeed in every country. there have been plenty of all time greats that had problems in certain countries. but how many average 12.29 over 8 tests? theres a line between poor and disgraceful and ponting is so far beyond it that he cant even see it.
shane warne's average in india isnt anywhere as poor, given the number of spin bowlers who have succeeded in india. and its certainly not to the point where he looks like a complete novice. not to mention of course that he had a pretty good time in his last series.
and yes if murali ends up getting hammered at over 80 in australia after 8 tests, then he wont be an all time great, but because im certain hes too good for that, im fairly sure that he'll come out with good figures.

Gotta love these Friends lines being used so frequently here.......

 

[tooextracool]

Gotta love these Friends lines being used so frequently here.......

yep joey to chandler.
should have mentioned the dot too.

 

[Deja moo]

Gotta love these Friends lines being used so frequently here.......

well, the line is a dot to him

 

[Mister Wright]

thats only one test, he cant be blamed for failure in that one, but he certainly missed his opportunity. he could have managed a 50 in that test and proved to everyone that he was capable, and they were players that scored 50s in that game, but he didnt. its not the best chance he got, but certainly when you've missed out on the previous 7 you have to take these chances.

From memory in that test he did get a dicey LBW, and does poor form when touring even considered or maturity as a batsman considered? Because Ponting has become a much better batsman since 2001.

 

[honestbharani]

To reply to the topic, yes, I know there a number of stats that can be misleading. It is upto us to sort out which are relevant and which are irrelevant.......

 

[tooextracool]

From memory in that test he did get a dicey LBW, and does poor form when touring even considered or maturity as a batsman considered? Because Ponting has become a much better batsman since 2001.

yes he did get a dicey lbw but either way that was a very poor shot to play early on in his innings.
ponting has become a better player since 2001 yes, but certainly i havent heard anything about him improving his ability against spin. if anything, hes gone backwards since the start of his career.

 

[SJS]

Some EXTREMELY revealing stats !!

BREAKING NEWS !!​

1. Sobers couldnt play the Kiwis on their turf !! The Carribean king was actually a bunny in Kiwiland

In 7 test matches spread over 12 years, the "so-called" great West Indian, scorer of the then highest test score, the then highest number of career test runs and a batting average in the high fifties, Sobers, scored a meager 151 at an average of 15.1 with a top score of 39 in ten completed innings !!!

Just as an aside, the so called best all rounder in the world, who many claim was tailor made for one day game had actually no clue of how to hold the bat in this form of the game as his batting average of 0.00 (in as many as one innings) would clearly suggest

2. Brian Lara can not perform on the big stage !!

Believe it or not, but Brian Charles Lara, the occupier of the best-batsman-in-the-world-today crown as per many, just cant handle it when playing at the real big grounds of the world !!

Here is what he has done at the top centres of India(Bombay), Australia(Melbourne), England(Lords) and Zimbabwe(Harare)

In 8 test matches, spread over his entire career, on these four grounds, this , "so-called" great has , in 16 innings averaged a Agarkaresque 15.37 per innings !!!

3. Brian Lara is mediocrity personified in the Indian sub continent !!

In 7 tests in India and Pakistan, Lara has never scored a hundred and averages a Kaif-like 26.8 !! No wonder he has been chickening out from playing in Bangladesh so far

PS : Ponting may be "useless" in India but he averages 119 in Pakistan (in a grand total of two innings) !!

4. George Headley was no BLACK BRADMAN in brown countries !!

The highly "over-rated" West Indian who managed(God knows how) an average of 60.8 in test matches was one of the worst batsmen in the world when it came to playing in India!!

He averaged 2.00 in tests in India. (Oh shut up. I know it was just one test and one innings but how do you know he would have fared better if he had played more games)

PS : Just a foot note : Bradman couldnt bat for nuts at Old Trafford as his record over three series spread over 18 years shows and he chickened out of touring South Africa and New Zealand so it is highly debatable that he was an all time great since he performed only in Australia and England (minus Old Trafford. )

- Tongue firmly esconced in cheek​

 

[Son Of Coco]

To reply to the topic, yes, I know there a number of stats that can be misleading. It is upto us to sort out which are relevant and which are irrelevant.......

It's not so much the stats that are misleading most of the time, it's what people do with them. You can take any stat on its own without putting it into the context it originally evolved from and make it mean whatever you want really. It's simply a matter of quoting the stat, and anything surrounding it that actually supports what you want to say, leaving out everything that doesn't.

 

[a massive zebra]

BREAKING NEWS !!​

1. Sobers couldnt play the Kiwis on their turf !! The Carribean king was actually a bunny in Kiwiland

In 7 test matches spread over 12 years, the "so-called" great West Indian, scorer of the then highest test score, the then highest number of career test runs and a batting average in the high fifties, Sobers, scored a meager 151 at an average of 15.1 with a top score of 39 in ten completed innings !!!

Just as an aside, the so called best all rounder in the world, who many claim was tailor made for one day game had actually no clue of how to hold the bat in this form of the game as his batting average of 0.00 (in as many as one innings) would clearly suggest

2. Brian Lara can not perform on the big stage !!

Believe it or not, but Brian Charles Lara, the occupier of the best-batsman-in-the-world-today crown as per many, just cant handle it when playing at the real big grounds of the world !!

Here is what he has done at the top centres of India(Bombay), Australia(Melbourne), England(Lords) and Zimbabwe(Harare)

In 8 test matches, spread over his entire career, on these four grounds, this , "so-called" great has , in 16 innings averaged a Agarkaresque 15.37 per innings !!!

3. Brian Lara is mediocrity personified in the Indian sub continent !!

In 7 tests in India and Pakistan, Lara has never scored a hundred and averages a Kaif-like 26.8 !! No wonder he has been chickening out from playing in Bangladesh so far

PS : Ponting may be "useless" in India but he averages 119 in Pakistan (in a grand total of two innings) !!

4. George Headley was no BLACK BRADMAN in brown countries !!

The highly "over-rated" West Indian who managed(God knows how) an average of 60.8 in test matches was one of the worst batsmen in the world when it came to playing in India!!

He averaged 2.00 in tests in India. (Oh shut up. I know it was just one test and one innings but how do you know he would have fared better if he had played more games)

PS : Just a foot note : Bradman couldnt bat for nuts at Old Trafford as his record over three series spread over 18 years shows and he chickened out of touring South Africa and New Zealand so it is highly debatable that he was an all time great since he performed only in Australia and England (minus Old Trafford. )

- Tongue firmly esconced in cheek​

Furthermore....

1. GD McGrath

Some reviewers noticed he hasnt taken a wicket since 2000 through his skill, and just purely down to the luck of the batsman playing a poor shot.

Well on the assumption that we can allow Glenny boy the privilige of having taking one skillful wicket this century (just to make the averages work better), McGrath therefore averages 4506 with the ball in tests at a SR of over 11500.

Surely no bowler has ever been this bad


2. VVS Laxman

when only taking into consideration the innings he has failed to score more than 2 runs in, he only has a highest score of 2 and averages only 0.25.

A waste of space in my book.


others I woudl like to consider...Murali (if he played the game like it should be played, he surely wouldnt have taken a single wicket in all his 91 tests)

Warne (taken his wickets due to his proven heroin addiction...ball of the century caused by rock of crack cocaine that had fallen out of pocket and onto the pitch, the ball obviously hit that)

Mark Waugh (told guy the weather forcast, this increased his batting average by 40)]

 

[Mister Wright]

BREAKING NEWS !!​

PS : Just a foot note : Bradman couldnt bat for nuts at Old Trafford as his record over three series spread over 18 years shows and he chickened out of touring South Africa and New Zealand so it is highly debatable that he was an all time great since he performed only in Australia and England (minus Old Trafford. )

- Tongue firmly esconced in cheek​

I've been saying that for years.

 

[Son Of Coco]

BREAKING NEWS !!​

1. Sobers couldnt play the Kiwis on their turf !! The Carribean king was actually a bunny in Kiwiland

In 7 test matches spread over 12 years, the "so-called" great West Indian, scorer of the then highest test score, the then highest number of career test runs and a batting average in the high fifties, Sobers, scored a meager 151 at an average of 15.1 with a top score of 39 in ten completed innings !!!

Just as an aside, the so called best all rounder in the world, who many claim was tailor made for one day game had actually no clue of how to hold the bat in this form of the game as his batting average of 0.00 (in as many as one innings) would clearly suggest

2. Brian Lara can not perform on the big stage !!

Believe it or not, but Brian Charles Lara, the occupier of the best-batsman-in-the-world-today crown as per many, just cant handle it when playing at the real big grounds of the world !!

Here is what he has done at the top centres of India(Bombay), Australia(Melbourne), England(Lords) and Zimbabwe(Harare)

In 8 test matches, spread over his entire career, on these four grounds, this , "so-called" great has , in 16 innings averaged a Agarkaresque 15.37 per innings !!!

3. Brian Lara is mediocrity personified in the Indian sub continent !!

In 7 tests in India and Pakistan, Lara has never scored a hundred and averages a Kaif-like 26.8 !! No wonder he has been chickening out from playing in Bangladesh so far

PS : Ponting may be "useless" in India but he averages 119 in Pakistan (in a grand total of two innings) !!

4. George Headley was no BLACK BRADMAN in brown countries !!

The highly "over-rated" West Indian who managed(God knows how) an average of 60.8 in test matches was one of the worst batsmen in the world when it came to playing in India!!

He averaged 2.00 in tests in India. (Oh shut up. I know it was just one test and one innings but how do you know he would have fared better if he had played more games)

PS : Just a foot note : Bradman couldnt bat for nuts at Old Trafford as his record over three series spread over 18 years shows and he chickened out of touring South Africa and New Zealand so it is highly debatable that he was an all time great since he performed only in Australia and England (minus Old Trafford. )

- Tongue firmly esconced in cheek​

Just as I thought!

They were all, quite simply, the luckiest batsmen to ever play the game

The question now remains, if a team containing 4 McGraths as the bowling combination played a batting lineup containing the 'Fortunate Foursome' would they simply cancel themselves out to the extent that at the end of the game nothing actually happened at all?

 

[SJS]

Just as I thought!

They were all, quite simply, the luckiest batsmen to ever play the game

The question now remains, if a team containing 4 McGraths as the bowling combination played a batting lineup containing the 'Fortunate Foursome' would they simply cancel themselves out to the extent that at the end of the game nothing actually happened at all?

 

[Top_Cat]

4*(McGrath)/'Fourtunate Foursome' = 0

Therefore,

0 = cricket as we know it.

Therefore,

Cricket as we know it does not exist.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Just as I thought!

They were all, quite simply, the luckiest batsmen to ever play the game

The question now remains, if a team containing 4 McGraths as the bowling combination played a batting lineup containing the 'Fortunate Foursome' would they simply cancel themselves out to the extent that at the end of the game nothing actually happened at all?

This is clearly a logical paradox of devilish complexity, and I feel we should put it to the master of all knowledge related to the luck or lack thereof of cricket players: Richard.

 

[SJS]

Australian selectors are totally crazy to have played Langer in only 7 odi's so far, after all he has one of the highest ever strike rates (88.9) in the game !!